Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
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07-12-2014, 01:07 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
Is happiness compatible with gods existance?
Not according to some of the stuff I've heard.
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07-12-2014, 06:51 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(07-12-2014 12:48 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  [Image: Dq87K.png]

I'm stealing that!

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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07-12-2014, 07:14 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
I think the Yes path from "Could god have created a universe with free-will but without evil?" should point further back or to a terminal node. Otherwise you can get to there via the "Free-will" path and then once returning to "Then why didn't he?" not have a satisfactory path forwards. But it is a pretty good basic summary of the problem of evil.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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07-12-2014, 08:09 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(06-12-2014 08:42 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Should be:
(1) If a benevolent God exists, then there would be no pointless suffering.
(2) There is apparently pointless suffering.
(3) Therefore, such a God does not exist.

The idea that a benevolent god would allow us to endure suffering that we saw as pointless is contradictory though so all it supports is a god that is not benevolent or one that is severely limited in his powers.

There can be no contradiction. Benevolence, all-loving, are aesthetic concepts. There are no right or wrong answers for what a benevolent God will allow, or won't allow, because all answers will just be an appeal to each individuals aesthetic preferences. They would in essence be a disagreement with someone who finds Whoopi Goldberg attractive, and someone who doesn't.

There problem solved.

Atheist: I believe a benevolent God would not allow pointless suffering to exist.
Theist: I believe a benevolent God can allow pointless suffering to exist.
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07-12-2014, 08:15 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(07-12-2014 08:09 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There problem solved.

Atheist: I believe a benevolent God would not allow pointless suffering to exist.
Theist: I believe a benevolent God can allow pointless suffering to exist.


That shows that either you do not understand the meaning of the word 'benevolent' or you are simply irrational.

Problem solved. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-12-2014, 08:23 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(07-12-2014 08:09 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 08:42 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Should be:
(1) If a benevolent God exists, then there would be no pointless suffering.
(2) There is apparently pointless suffering.
(3) Therefore, such a God does not exist.

The idea that a benevolent god would allow us to endure suffering that we saw as pointless is contradictory though so all it supports is a god that is not benevolent or one that is severely limited in his powers.

There can be no contradiction. Benevolence, all-loving, are aesthetic concepts. There are no right or wrong answers for what a benevolent God will allow, or won't allow, because all answers will just be an appeal to each individuals aesthetic preferences. They would in essence be a disagreement with someone who finds Whoopi Goldberg attractive, and someone who doesn't.

There problem solved.

Atheist: I believe a benevolent God would not allow pointless suffering to exist.
Theist: I believe a benevolent God can allow pointless suffering to exist.

Apparently in your delusional state, you don't know what the word "aesthetics" means.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesthetics

Now you tell me how an all-loving god permitting an innocent 3 year old to suffer and die a painful agonizing death from one of the childhood Leukemias is about "beauty", you fucking idiot.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-12-2014, 09:01 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(07-12-2014 08:23 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Now you tell me how an all-loving god permitting an innocent 3 year old to suffer and die a painful agonizing death from one of the childhood Leukemias is about "beauty", you fucking idiot.

Sure, once you get a grip on yourself by not slobbering all over the place.
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07-12-2014, 09:13 AM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2014 09:26 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(07-12-2014 08:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-12-2014 08:09 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There problem solved.

Atheist: I believe a benevolent God would not allow pointless suffering to exist.
Theist: I believe a benevolent God can allow pointless suffering to exist.


That shows that either you do not understand the meaning of the word 'benevolent' or you are simply irrational.

Problem solved. Drinking Beverage

No, I perfectly understand how you and other atheists want to define benevolence, so that it means not allowing pointless suffering to exist. But the conundrum is, that theists and believers have a different understanding, and definition, that doesn't hold allowing pointless suffering to negate it.

The very idea of benevolence, presupposes our own moral outlooks and perspectives. Someone who views morality in terms of consequentialism, and someone who views morality along the lines of virtue ethics, deontology etc.. will have a different understanding of the meaning of benevolence, omnibenevolence, just like they would on what makes an act moral.

Just like you might have a different definition of what a model citizen would be, a model soldier, etc... while others who might not share your particular moral or political ideologies will likely disagree.
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07-12-2014, 09:18 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(07-12-2014 09:01 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(07-12-2014 08:23 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Now you tell me how an all-loving god permitting an innocent 3 year old to suffer and die a painful agonizing death from one of the childhood Leukemias is about "beauty", you fucking idiot.

Sure, once you get a grip on yourself by not slobbering all over the place.

I see. So you can't. Drooling retard.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-12-2014, 09:19 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(07-12-2014 09:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, I perfectly understand how you and other atheists want to define benevolence, so that it means not allowing pointless suffering to exist. But the conundrum is, that theists and believers have a different understanding, and definition, that doesn't hold allowing pointless suffering to negative it.

You are seriously arguing that a benevolent god allowing pointless suffering is a coherent position?
Consider
Facepalm

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