Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
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08-12-2014, 10:37 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(08-12-2014 10:31 AM)unfogged Wrote:  No, the foundation of the problem of evil is quite solid for anybody not completely blinded by "faith". Redefining words to eviscerate their meaning in order to pretend that the problem doesn't exist only works for theists.


No, it isn't. In fact the foundation that exists in the background, in which someone like Epicurus makes the argument ( a teleological view of good), doesn't exist for atheists. But many atheists have been drinking this kool-aid for so long, that they are blind to the fact that their empire (moral foundation) has no clothes.

Even though all the critics appear to be arguing the same thing, they are so much in denial that they can't even explicitly confess, that their foundation for the problem of evil, is exclusively a grammatical one, lol.
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08-12-2014, 11:34 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(08-12-2014 09:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-12-2014 08:37 AM)Chas Wrote:  Or dishonestly redefining benevolence to include pointless suffering and unspeakable horror. Drinking Beverage

So the the entire foundation of the problem of evil, is an argument for improper grammar?

Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-12-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(08-12-2014 09:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-12-2014 08:37 AM)Chas Wrote:  Or dishonestly redefining benevolence to include pointless suffering and unspeakable horror. Drinking Beverage

So the the entire foundation of the problem of evil, is an argument for improper grammar?

No. Your quirky definition of benevolent is a problem.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2014, 11:36 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(08-12-2014 09:26 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-12-2014 08:43 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The fact that you can excuse and try explain away the suffering of children, (which you have in no way even attempted yet), and try to make it consistent with a loving deity, just shows how utterly bankrupt your cult's rationalizations of Reality is.

I don't even have to make excuses or explain away suffering children. The argument when made by an atheists can be dismantled with ease without even getting to that point. In fact even the most crudest of theists do this with ease, causing the unbelievers to trip all over himself repeatedly. It's a game an atheists loses before the match even started, where they are left to whine on the bench after being defeated, secretly wishing for a God they don't believe in.

Of course the argument would be different if it was one between believers, christian or otherwise, but it's a silly one to have with moral relativist.

At this point, the best argument anyone has, is to argue for improper grammar, lol.

You again blather on about arguments but don't present them. Your assertions are not credible.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2014, 11:38 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(08-12-2014 09:26 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-12-2014 08:43 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The fact that you can excuse and try explain away the suffering of children, (which you have in no way even attempted yet), and try to make it consistent with a loving deity, just shows how utterly bankrupt your cult's rationalizations of Reality is.

I don't even have to make excuses or explain away suffering children. The argument when made by an atheists can be dismantled with ease without even getting to that point. In fact even the most crudest of theists do this with ease, causing the unbelievers to trip all over himself repeatedly. It's a game an atheists loses before the match even started, where they are left to whine on the bench after being defeated, secretly wishing for a God they don't believe in.

Of course the argument would be different if it was one between believers, christian or otherwise, but it's a silly one to have with moral relativist.

At this point, the best argument anyone has, is to argue for improper grammar, lol.

Great. then lets see you try, you blowhard buffoon. Now.
The argument is the argument. It stands on it's own.
If you can't make a compelling one, then STFU.
You have not even begun to demonstrate that anyone here is a moral relativist like your idiot god, that CHANGED its mind on what the rules were, (speaking of "moral relativism"). You deity is chief of that gang. Every Christian is a moral "relativist". YOUR BRAIN weighs the situation. YOU are a moral relativist. Even the MOST CONSERVATIVE Baptist sects are moral relativists.

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08-12-2014, 11:49 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(08-12-2014 10:37 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-12-2014 10:31 AM)unfogged Wrote:  No, the foundation of the problem of evil is quite solid for anybody not completely blinded by "faith". Redefining words to eviscerate their meaning in order to pretend that the problem doesn't exist only works for theists.


No, it isn't. In fact the foundation that exists in the background, in which someone like Epicurus makes the argument ( a teleological view of good), doesn't exist for atheists. But many atheists have been drinking this kool-aid for so long, that they are blind to the fact that their empire (moral foundation) has no clothes.

Even though all the critics appear to be arguing the same thing, they are so much in denial that they can't even explicitly confess, that their foundation for the problem of evil, is exclusively a grammatical one, lol.

If a child is suffering, I would not want that and try to help the child, not allow it, I am more moral than your god.

Also, this exposes just how incompetent your god is, is it possible to make a place where suffering does not exist? Christianity touts heaven as this place, so what's the purpose of an Earth which this deity allows suffering and a heaven in which there is no suffering?

Is it a test? Then your god is not all-knowing, which is a subset of omnipotence.

Is this creation riddled with imperfection? Then your god is not all powerful, its imperfect creation is a mirror of itself.

Does your god not care about suffering or refuses to explain it? Not exactly a hallmark of benevolence.

Why don't you just admit that the bronze-age savages that described your god in the bible didn't have a clue about how to explain a god that never displays his power?

All they did was state in Job that we are not to question and refer to the "mystery of iniquity" as an explanation. The ancient savages had no answers, plain and simple.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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08-12-2014, 12:18 PM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(08-12-2014 11:49 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  If a child is suffering, I would not want that and try to help the child, not allow it, I am more moral than your god.

And yes, and I'm better looking than Brad Pitt, and you can't prove me wrong or right. That's basically what any statement from you, or any other atheists about what is moral or not, whose more moral than anyone else amounts to.

Quote:Does your god not care about suffering or refuses to explain it?

For his own aesthetic prerogatives, which you may or may not find attractive, like certain paintings. Your argument is akin to claiming good artists paint only pictures of sunsets, and beaches.

Quote:Why don't you just admit that the bronze-age savages that described your god in the bible didn't have a clue about how to explain a god that never displays his power?

Well, clearly they attributed benevolence to him.
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08-12-2014, 12:23 PM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(08-12-2014 12:18 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:Does your god not care about suffering or refuses to explain it?

For his own aesthetic prerogatives, which you may or may not find attractive, like certain paintings. Your argument is akin to claiming good artists paint only pictures of sunsets, and beaches.

Indeed, aesthetic reasons for allowing a child to suffer, aesthetic and mysterious apparently.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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08-12-2014, 12:25 PM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(08-12-2014 10:37 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Even though all the critics appear to be arguing the same thing, they are so much in denial that they can't even explicitly confess, that their foundation for the problem of evil, is exclusively a grammatical one, lol.

From here it appears that it is your denial that the problem exists that is purely grammatical.

Quote:Well, clearly they attributed benevolence to him.

Maybe they were just fawning over him and sucking up because they understood what a monster they had conceived of.

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08-12-2014, 12:39 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2014 12:45 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(08-12-2014 11:38 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Great. then lets see you try, you blowhard buffoon. Now.
The argument is the argument. It stands on it's own.
If you can't make a compelling one, then STFU.

Here's one that irrefutable.

In order for the problem of evil to work, I'd have to agree that benevolence is negated by the existence of meaningless suffering. The argument is refuted just by disagreeing. Since there is no objective standard the individuals making the argument can appeal to, all that is required to refute the argument is to disagree with it.

All i have to do is to expose the blatantly nudity, the shallowness of the problem when proposed by atheists, who are now left whining, recognizing the best they can do is state that I have transgressed some grammatical boundary.
Or in other words, to restate the problem of evil as proposed by atheists: A benevolent God would not allow meaningless suffering to exist, to say otherwise would be grammatically incorrect.
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