Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
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04-03-2014, 03:40 AM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 12:03 AM)sporehux Wrote:  I think we bring a lot of crap upon ourselves by continuing to dodge the "so your claiming there is no god" question.
Many atheists have trouble stating there is no God, rather they dance around semantics and don't out right say gods are a lie.
"I'm not saying there is no God, I'm saying I don't believe in the ones presented" this is Atheist apologetics:

We don't claim Thor or Santa Claus are possible, we flatly claim they don't exist.
Why then with the mountain of evidence that proves all deities are fictional, do we make an exemption for them ?
Many public Atheists are guilty of this, Why?


I've been saying this for years. Atheists themselves put god on a pedestal at times.
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04-03-2014, 03:41 AM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 03:33 AM)Aleprauchanist Wrote:  I genuinely believe that one day(though not in any of our lifetimes) Atheism will be the norm and believing in deities will be seen the same way as thinking the earth is flat. "Atheism" won't even be a term anymore

I'd be happy if we could just get to the point of having a thoroughly secular society again. Believe all the woo you want, but keep it out of public policy decisions.

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04-03-2014, 03:44 AM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
Can't see it ever getting less then 10 percent, there will always be ignorant sheep and a few cunning wolves to herd them.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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04-03-2014, 03:52 AM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 12:22 AM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  ...
I see your point but am with sporehux. I am happy to make the claim. As evidence for my position I offer the mountains of support for evolution, which in turn disproves the creation account in Genesis. ... That's for starters, that's Yahweh of the bible done. Falisfy evolution you God bothering fuckers! Drinking Beverage

You may be happy to make the claim. I may be happy to make the claim.

But either which way, that is irrelevant to the question I answered.

Drinking Beverage

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04-03-2014, 04:35 AM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2014 05:26 AM by sporehux.)
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
I see your point DLJ, but I think it unintentionally links the "begining" paradox with their flavour of monobully. Your spoon feeding them gap gruel.

It OK for lubricating a debate (I pretend to be a desist with creatard friends). But it makes an atheist look like they concede the bible god Is more then a fanciful notion.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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04-03-2014, 04:51 AM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 04:35 AM)sporehux Wrote:  I see your point DLJ, but I think it unintentionally links the "begining" paradox with their flavour of monobully. Your spoon feeding them gap gruel.

My spoon?

Not me.

You asked about public atheists i.e. those who will have their words twisted.

I don't think that most of us in our obscure little corner of the Internet count as 'public' in the sense that you intended. Please correct me if that was not your intended meaning.

Often we see the way that Prof. Dawkins' off-the-cuff remarks are jumped upon. Have we not learned that the burden of proof matter is the way to keep the supernaturalists on the back foot?

Public atheists like Hitch and the Atheist Experience troop, are careful about this.

Example: Hitch's opening sentence (after the jokey bit)... "It may not be said... etc."



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04-03-2014, 06:13 AM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2014 09:19 AM by sporehux.)
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
My favorite Hitchens address, when I first heard that I wanted to setup a pirate radio station for it.
Hitchens does it right in saying a possible prime mover cannot be your monotheistic tyrant.

Others leave it vague, like Dillahunty and the theists go "ahaha"

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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04-03-2014, 08:05 AM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(03-03-2014 09:59 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  So often real atheists...err I mean... non-stamp collectors retreat to the neutral corner and claim they merely lack theism, and claim theirs is the default,
'born-that-way' tabula rasa....which would be fine, except they often take this approach AFTER having just critiqued someone else's worldview

Here's the thing:

You can be an atheist and make the negative claim that "no gods exist". You can be an atheist and simply not make the positive claim that "gods exist". So, semantically, that is the distinction between a gnostic and an agnostic atheist; however functionally, they're both living their lives the same way, day to day. Functionally speaking, they're not assuming that gods exist and having that affect their decisions.

So, yeah, the distinction being made here is one that pretty much only exists for purposes of discussion, and that's about the only time you're ever going to see it. Nothing special here.


(03-03-2014 09:59 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  You cannot ignore the fact that millions of pages have been written by atheists about atheism. And you cannot ignore the fact that atheists gather at international conventions
to discuss "The Atheist Perspective"

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Because atheists talk about atheism... they must all be making the assertion that God doesn't exist? I don't follow, as in, that's a total nonsequitur.
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04-03-2014, 09:41 AM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 12:03 AM)sporehux Wrote:  I think we bring a lot of crap upon ourselves by continuing to dodge the "so your claiming there is no god" question.
Many atheists have trouble stating there is no God, rather they dance around semantics and don't out right say gods are a lie.
"I'm not saying there is no God, I'm saying I don't believe in the ones presented" this is Atheist apologetics:

We don't claim Thor or Santa Claus are possible, we flatly claim they don't exist.
Why then with the mountain of evidence that proves all deities are fictional, do we make an exemption for them ?
Many public Atheists are guilty of this, Why?

I think people avoid that simply because they don't want theists to label them as exercising "faith".

I've always said, faith requires at least one of two things... Hope and/or fear, usually both.

I have nothing riding on whether or not there is a god. I didn't become an atheist because it sounded attractive, or offered salvation. I became an atheist because theism just doesn't cut it and has been in effect, debunked by science, history and logic.

Faith always has an emotional attachment... I have no emotional connection with what occurred in the trillionth of a second prior to the Big Bang. I just sincerely doubt that it was a supernatural being.

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04-03-2014, 09:57 AM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 09:41 AM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  I think people avoid that simply because they don't want theists to label them as exercising "faith".
I've always said, faith requires at least one of two things... Hope and/or fear, usually both.
I have nothing riding on whether or not there is a god. I didn't become an atheist because it sounded attractive, or offered salvation. I became an atheist because theism just doesn't cut it and has been in effect, debunked by science, history and logic.
Faith always has an emotional attachment... I have no emotional connection with what occurred in the trillionth of a second prior to the Big Bang. I just sincerely doubt that it was a supernatural being.

That's the irony though, because if faith = ( a belief that is not based on proof), then you are guilty of faith if you think that a deity is possible IF that is you have researched and concluded that the evidence for any form of deity is a man made concept.
You are guilty of the "anything is possible Woo", shame on woo. Dodgy

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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