Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
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04-03-2014, 10:23 AM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(03-03-2014 09:59 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  So often real atheists...err I mean... non-stamp collectors retreat to the neutral corner and claim they merely lack theism, and claim theirs is the default,
'born-that-way' tabula rasa....which would be fine, except they often take this approach AFTER having just critiqued someone else's worldview

You cannot ignore the fact that millions of pages have been written by atheists about atheism. And you cannot ignore the fact that atheists gather at international conventions
to discuss "The Atheist Perspective"
Your post is a perfect example of why the OP was created. Did you fail Logic 101? Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. That's it. Nothing you say will change that. Period.

So then what's wrong with what you said - with what you thought contradicted the definition? It's the assumption that atheists talking about atheism somehow makes it something else than that definition. First, who said atheists are any less capable of being wrong on the subject than theists? Merely talking about atheism in a way that doesn't fit the definition, doesn't mean those atheists are correct. I have heard some atheists who are confused about what atheism is. I have even heard some deists state incorrectly that they are atheists. Second, when atheists talk about atheism, they aren't redefining it. There are some areas of knowledge that many atheists share an interest in - areas that specifically contradict theism - and which they enjoy sharing information about. Evolution, for example. Big Bang, for example. These areas support atheism by providing alternative explanations from theism and doing so with solid evidence. They are not, however, part of atheism's definition.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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04-03-2014, 11:01 AM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 12:03 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(03-03-2014 11:48 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  ...undue power in politics.

Democracy - what a bummer!

You think the catholic church is a democracy, asshole?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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04-03-2014, 11:07 AM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 09:57 AM)sporehux Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 09:41 AM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  I think people avoid that simply because they don't want theists to label them as exercising "faith".
I've always said, faith requires at least one of two things... Hope and/or fear, usually both.
I have nothing riding on whether or not there is a god. I didn't become an atheist because it sounded attractive, or offered salvation. I became an atheist because theism just doesn't cut it and has been in effect, debunked by science, history and logic.
Faith always has an emotional attachment... I have no emotional connection with what occurred in the trillionth of a second prior to the Big Bang. I just sincerely doubt that it was a supernatural being.

That's the irony though, because if faith = ( a belief that is not based on proof), then you are guilty of faith if you think that a deity is possible IF that is you have researched and concluded that the evidence for any form of deity is a man made concept.
You are guilty of the "anything is possible Woo", shame on woo. Dodgy

Did you suddenly become a fucking theist apologist while I was sleeping? Why are you now pushing theist strawman arguments and attempts to shift theists' burden of proof?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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04-03-2014, 11:16 AM
Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Unders...
(04-03-2014 12:03 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(03-03-2014 11:48 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  ...undue power in politics.

Democracy - what a bummer!

Separation of church and state - Cry about persecution!

β€œIt is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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04-03-2014, 11:22 AM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 11:16 AM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 12:03 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Democracy - what a bummer!

Separation of church and state - Cry about persecution!

Yes, and the Nevada law is a PERFECT example of WHY the separation was and remains necessary and why didn't go anywhere near far enough.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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04-03-2014, 11:32 AM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 11:22 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  ...
Nevada law
...

Translation for the non-Yanks, please?

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04-03-2014, 12:05 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2014 01:27 PM by Dean J. Smith.)
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 03:40 AM)TheStraightener Wrote:  I've been saying this for years. Atheists themselves put god on a pedestal at times.

I've often heard it said that agnostic atheists are willingly to state flatly that leprechauns don't exist, only to see an agnostic atheist point out that they are not willing to say so for exactly the same reason they're not willing to say no God could exist.

I'm a strong atheist toward the Abrahamic God as usually depicted: it's clearly a pile of incompatible and contradictory omni-attributes that are nothing more than the product of generations of trying to out-do the other guy in claims that their God is bigger. It doesn't exist, it's a married bachelor, a square circle.

Thor, on the other hand, only has lack of evidence and existence of alternate explanations for lightning and thunder going against him.
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04-03-2014, 12:05 PM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 11:32 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 11:22 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  ...
Nevada law
...

Translation for the non-Yanks, please?

Arizona Governor Jan Brewer recently vetoed (killed) a law passed by the NV legislature that would allow businesses to refuse service to gays (and others) in the name of their religion.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/2...2420140227



Yes, the US is STILL THAT fucking backward.

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04-03-2014, 12:09 PM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 11:22 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 11:16 AM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Separation of church and state - Cry about persecution!

Yes, and the Nevada law is a PERFECT example of WHY the separation was and remains necessary and why didn't go anywhere near far enough.

Something to point out that may sound pedantic but is a critical to this point. WE (USA) DON'T LIVE IN A FUCKING DEMOCRACY! We live in a Representative Republic. This is a key distinction, especially in situations like Arizona. In a Democracy, the people vote directly on laws, this causes what is known as the tyranny of the majority. With a simple majority of people (51%), you effectively rule the entire country. This is exactly why our government was designed as a republic. It is much more difficult to "rule" over a minority of people when rules are not enacted by popular vote, but by elected officials who have to worry about re-election. It's far from perfect, but at least it reduces the amount of theistic legislation that can get passed.

And yes, Taq, separation of church and state is supposed to work a lot better than it does, but politicians are politicians and will pander to their base as much as we'll let them.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

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04-03-2014, 12:12 PM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 12:05 PM)Dean J. Smith Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 03:40 AM)TheStraightener Wrote:  I've been saying this for years. Atheists themselves put god on a pedestal at times.

I've often heard it said that agnostic atheists are willingly to state flatly that leprechauns don't exist, only to see an agnostic atheist point out that they are not willing to say so for exactly the same reason they're not willing to say no God could exist.

I'm a strong agnostic toward the Abrahamic God as usually depicted: it's clearly a pile of incompatible and contradictory omni-attributes that are nothing more than the product of generations of trying to out-do the other guy in claims that their God is bigger. It doesn't exist, it's a married bachelor, a square circle.

Thor, on the other hand, only has lack of evidence and existence of alternate explanations for lightning and thunder going against him.

[Image: odin-vs.-jesus.jpg]



[Image: All+Hail+Cthulhu_154995_4729590.jpg]





Big Grin

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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