Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
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04-03-2014, 12:21 PM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 11:07 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 09:57 AM)sporehux Wrote:  That's the irony though, because if faith = ( a belief that is not based on proof), then you are guilty of faith if you think that a deity is possible IF that is you have researched and concluded that the evidence for any form of deity is a man made concept.
You are guilty of the "anything is possible Woo", shame on woo. Dodgy

Did you suddenly become a fucking theist apologist while I was sleeping? Why are you now pushing theist strawman arguments and attempts to shift theists' burden of proof?

What U on Taq?, I'm just concluding that the evidence for no deities is conclusive enough to say there are no gods and there never was, there are no supernatural realms, only new fields of science to explore.
Atheists that state, " I'm not claiming there can't be a god" are either poorly educated on theism and science, or they are being dishonest with themselves.
Pre big bang theory is for the scientific method to figure out, not the WOO WOO of "well anything is possible" bullshit.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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04-03-2014, 12:24 PM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 12:05 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 11:32 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Translation for the non-Yanks, please?

Arizona Governor Jan Brewer recently vetoed (killed) a law passed by the NV legislature that would allow businesses to refuse service to gays (and others) in the name of their religion.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/2...2420140227



Yes, the US is STILL THAT fucking backward.

More states that are trying to pass similar laws:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/politics/r...om-states/

The fun never stops. Morons.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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04-03-2014, 12:35 PM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 09:57 AM)sporehux Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 09:41 AM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  I think people avoid that simply because they don't want theists to label them as exercising "faith".
I've always said, faith requires at least one of two things... Hope and/or fear, usually both.
I have nothing riding on whether or not there is a god. I didn't become an atheist because it sounded attractive, or offered salvation. I became an atheist because theism just doesn't cut it and has been in effect, debunked by science, history and logic.
Faith always has an emotional attachment... I have no emotional connection with what occurred in the trillionth of a second prior to the Big Bang. I just sincerely doubt that it was a supernatural being.

That's the irony though, because if faith = ( a belief that is not based on proof), then you are guilty of faith if you think that a deity is possible IF that is you have researched and concluded that the evidence for any form of deity is a man made concept.
You are guilty of the "anything is possible Woo", shame on woo. Dodgy

I tend to draw a line between belief and faith.

I'm sure there are probably people out there who believe in a god, but don't put their faith in it, simply because they've never thought about it.

Believing something to be true without proof is illogical enough, but actually investing faith in it is a whole other level. Obviously the two more often than not come together.

Someone who believes, but has no faith is probably quite likely to become an atheist if they investigate it logically.

But creationists might be an example of the opposite... They want their faith to be unchallenged, but know that it requires water tight beliefs.

I'm pretty sure that deep down inside, Ray Comfort and the like know they're talking bullshit, but for whatever reason they won't back down. That could be because of denial, or ego... I dunno, probably a bit of both.

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04-03-2014, 12:41 PM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 12:21 PM)sporehux Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 11:07 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Did you suddenly become a fucking theist apologist while I was sleeping? Why are you now pushing theist strawman arguments and attempts to shift theists' burden of proof?

What U on Taq?, I'm just concluding that the evidence for no deities is conclusive enough to say there are no gods and there never was, there are no supernatural realms, only new fields of science to explore.

Fine, and I am the one who points out to any of them that their fairy tale is just another fairy tale, but you are talking about atheists "dodging" the issue, and all that really does is play into the theist apolotards' strawman arguments. It is a well-known tactic of theist apolotards to attempt to shift the burden of proof. We don't have the burden of proof. It's hardly fucking "dodging" to head off and parry their fallacy by refusing to make a positive statement that we know will bring on an a fusillade of red herrings and an onslaught of logical fallacies and derail any further real discussion.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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04-03-2014, 12:44 PM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 12:24 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 12:05 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Arizona Governor Jan Brewer recently vetoed (killed) a law passed by the NV legislature that would allow businesses to refuse service to gays (and others) in the name of their religion.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/2...2420140227



Yes, the US is STILL THAT fucking backward.

More states that are trying to pass similar laws:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/politics/r...om-states/

The fun never stops. Morons.

Yes, but fortunately (at least for now) these laws are being swatted down like flies in the courts and (at least in the NV case) on governors' desks.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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04-03-2014, 12:53 PM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 12:41 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  all that really does is play into the theist apolotards' strawman arguments.

That to a degree, but I think its far worse to give them an acceptance that god is possible, when clearly its not with the current information at hand.

I'd rather them straw-man me, then think I believe gods are possible, thus giving them smug credibility for their position.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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04-03-2014, 01:18 PM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 12:53 PM)sporehux Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 12:41 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  all that really does is play into the theist apolotards' strawman arguments.

That to a degree, but I think its far worse to give them an acceptance that god is possible, when clearly its not with the current information at hand.

I'd rather them straw-man me, then think I believe gods are possible, thus giving them smug credibility for their position.

Most people aren't as knowledgeable as we are about apologetics tactics and the sort of bullshit we are in for when he way "hey, wait a damn minute..." to an apolotard. Of course there is the problem that these people spend their time honing their snake-oil sales pitches, and preparing bullshit routines to throw in case an unbeliever says this, this, this, etc. Just like a hard-sell salesman or a con man, they stack the deck because they know their mark usually won't be prepared for every trick they have in their bag. Most people don't invest the time that you and I and some others here have into figuring out their tricks and how to defeat them. For someone like Harris or Dawkins, yes it disappoints me when they don't take "your gawd simply doesn't exist/is a fairy tale" to the hilt in debates. But I and probably others here who argue the shit over and over as the idiots come and go don't have the time every time to get into the whole smash of demonstrating how their fairy tale is just another fairy tale. And they NEVER come away from the discussion going, "yanno, he just might be onto something..."

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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04-03-2014, 07:35 PM
Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
We can hardly blame the uninformed for falling victim to dishonest apologetics tactics, or the lies used for indoctrination like "Science being just another system of belief," and "Atheism a religion." The school system deserves most of that blame.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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05-03-2014, 12:39 PM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(04-03-2014 12:03 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(03-03-2014 11:48 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  ...undue power in politics.

Democracy - what a bummer!

Bringing religion into the government is unconstitutional - it doesn't matter what the majority says until they change the Constitution. So there's that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-03-2014, 02:30 PM
RE: Is The Definition Of Atheism Really That Difficult For Creationists To Understand?
(05-03-2014 12:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 12:03 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Democracy - what a bummer!

Bringing religion into the government is unconstitutional - it doesn't matter what the majority says until they change the Constitution. So there's that.
I hate it how america isn't a TRUE democracy, it's a REPRESENTATIVE democracy.
If I ever create a country, it'll be a Equalistic Egalitarianistic (yes, redundant.) Democracy, Meaning that the power is divided among EVERY citizen, and no citizen has more power than the next.

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