Is Trust in Science Lost in USA
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22-04-2014, 07:22 AM
Is Trust in Science Lost in USA
The line "facts can't argue against faith" is so true! Just when I thought we were moving in the right direction as belief has been declining. Then again, if you polled our society on how long it takes for the earth to orbit the sun one time, I am sure more than a few would get it wrong. What a stupid, stupid country we are becoming.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/21...84931.html

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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22-04-2014, 07:44 AM
RE: Is Trust in Science Lost in USA
I think in a certain sense, facts can argue against faith and show a particular belief to be false. I say this as a Christian.

For example, if Christ did not rise bodily from the dead on the Sunday following His crucifixion, then this fact would argue against the belief in His resurrection.
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22-04-2014, 07:48 AM
RE: Is Trust in Science Lost in USA
I can't help but think that some of it is a failure of our education system, rather than belief system taking over.

maybe that is wishful thinking on my part.....especially the sun revolving around the earth part...I know some whacko YEC'ers and they seem to hold to the idea that the earth revolves around the sun..I don't think I've ever met anyone (even living here in the south) that thinks the earth is center...I'm thinking the result is people just 'not thinking' when they answer survey questions-which seems very American to me.

Even here....many of the quizzes posted lately, some of the questions required some brain power and many people just didn't want to be bothered with thinking about it.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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22-04-2014, 08:08 AM
RE: Is Trust in Science Lost in USA
You're surprised? One in four people is a geocentrist. One in five is a flat earther. And they're very vocal about putting their beliefs out there and defaming science.

People is dumb.
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22-04-2014, 08:14 AM
RE: Is Trust in Science Lost in USA
As long as people exist on this earth, belief in the transcendant will be a fact of reality.

Scientism will never trump belief in the transcendant. Since the beginning of recorded history humanity as a whole has believed in the transcendant.

Why?

I wager it is because belief in the transcendant is natural for us. Natural in the same sense that it is natural for humans to want to feel wanted and loved and special. Natutal in the sense that a cow eats grass and bears hibernate in the winter. Its in their nature to do those things like it is in our nature to lift our eyes unto the heavens and ask: how? why? does all that exists exist? Humanity for the most part has known better than to believe it is just some random accident.
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22-04-2014, 08:20 AM
RE: Is Trust in Science Lost in USA
IMO it is bacause somewhere in the past people were forced to choose between science and religion. Out of fear most choose religion. There is no reason I can tell why people can not embrace both. When I was a believer I did and found no conflict. Most all of my family are still farily devout and have no problem with science. My parents, who are super catholic, made sure all of us kids got educated properly. My mom made sure we watched the science documentaries when we were growing up. They always treated science and religion as two non-connected fields of study. When I was a believer I did the same with my kids.
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22-04-2014, 08:36 AM
RE: Is Trust in Science Lost in USA
(22-04-2014 08:14 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  As long as people exist on this earth, belief in the transcendant will be a fact of reality.

Scientism will never trump belief in the transcendant. Since the beginning of recorded history humanity as a whole has believed in the transcendant.

Why?

I wager it is because belief in the transcendant is natural for us. Natural in the same sense that it is natural for humans to want to feel wanted and loved and special. Natutal in the sense that a cow eats grass and bears hibernate in the winter. Its in their nature to do those things like it is in our nature to lift our eyes unto the heavens and ask: how? why? does all that exists exist? Humanity for the most part has known better than to believe it is just some random accident.

Naturalistic fallacy and straw man.

It's a twofer!

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22-04-2014, 08:45 AM
RE: Is Trust in Science Lost in USA
where is the naturalistic fallacy? where is the strawman?
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22-04-2014, 08:46 AM
RE: Is Trust in Science Lost in USA
(22-04-2014 08:45 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  where is the naturalistic fallacy? where is the strawman?

Science will never trump "belief in the transcendent" because it is "natural".

Humanity has "known better" than to believe "just some random accident".

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22-04-2014, 09:04 AM
RE: Is Trust in Science Lost in USA
(22-04-2014 08:14 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  As long as people exist on this earth, belief in the transcendant will be a fact of reality.

Scientism will never trump belief in the transcendant. Since the beginning of recorded history humanity as a whole has believed in the transcendant.

Why?

I wager it is because belief in the transcendant is natural for us. Natural in the same sense that it is natural for humans to want to feel wanted and loved and special. Natutal in the sense that a cow eats grass and bears hibernate in the winter. Its in their nature to do those things like it is in our nature to lift our eyes unto the heavens and ask: how? why? does all that exists exist? Humanity for the most part has known better than to believe it is just some random accident.

"Scientism"? You people are just making up words now?

Humanity for the most part has known better than to believe that the Earth is a spinning object hurtling through the heavens. Humanity for the most part has been ignorant. The fact that humanity for the most part does not believe a thing, does not make that thing false, and if you wish to argue otherwise, you are arguing that Christianity was false for all the centuries that it took for it to emerge as the majority religion on this planet...

... wait...

... it's still under the 50% mark...

... I guess most of humanity knows better than to believe in Christianity.

Before you appeal to instinct, or populism, or anything else, there's a very basic set of questions you should ask. "Does this method of arriving at knowledge tend to lead one to truth? Does it self-perpetuate, or self-correct, errors in our assumptions? Does this method have a good track record? How reliable is this as a way of knowing? When it is in error, how dangerous do these errors get?" Asking these basic, common-sense questions lets us rate these various methods, and lets us discard the bad methods for the worthless things they are.

Appeal to instinct: Unreliable, self-perpetuating, and prone to dangerous errors.
Appeal to populism: Unreliable, self-perpetuating, and prone to dangerous errors.
Science: Fairly reliable, self-correcting. Prone to dangerous errors... but at least prone to fewer of them, and capable of self-correction.
Religion: Unreliable, self-perpetuating, prone to dangerous errors.
Transcendentalism: Unreliable, self-perpetuating, prone to dangerous errors.

....

...

..

One of these things is not like the others...
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