Is War a necessary evil? my thoughts
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19-04-2012, 10:45 PM (This post was last modified: 19-04-2012 10:52 PM by TheAverageGatsby.)
Is War a necessary evil? my thoughts
Is War needed right now? it's used as a means of population control and boosting economies. The main method USA used to get out of the Great Depression. Before the US involvement in WWII we sold weapons to the Allies and received reparations after. There isn't a doubt that US and Europe is in great debt due to what's going on in Greece, US Recessions, and prosperity of China's giant labor force. Is it possible that our populations have grown so large and we have such limited resources that prices are rising due to high demand and low supply? More and more cars, computers, Ipads, houses, and others are built every year to sustain a ever growing population and oil, metals, and other materials are being used up. more factories built to push out more products for booming populations. Forests and fields are cut down to make new homes and shopping centers. average lifespans increasing every year due to new medical discoveries and increased child birth compared to deaths.

So wouldn't the solution be to eliminate some of the demand? Survival of the fittest, Darwinism? with the strong left alive there would be plenty of supply to sustain. repeat again in another 300 or so years? is it inevitable?

i was going around the mall and shopping places and noticed horrendously high prices for things and these thoughts poured into my mind. these are pretty macabre ideas imo, but what do you guys think about it? am i just crazy or is this actually the reality of the world we live in but nobody wants to admit this?
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19-04-2012, 10:53 PM
RE: Is War a necessary evil? my thoughts
Heh, I believe people need to die eventually. With the elimination of many diseases, wars not affecting as many people, and longer lives lead to overpopulation. What we need is a massive war(non nuclear, but that is unlikely at this point in time), a way to expand off earth in large numbers, or a huge natural disaster. With the global seas rising many coastal cities will be flooded and some people will die. If something does not stop our future of being overpopulated, this world may even starve to death.

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20-04-2012, 12:10 AM
RE: Is War a necessary evil? my thoughts
First off, while wars can be used as a means of population control I don't believe we, the USA, have ever openly or secretly went to war with this purpose in mind. Right now, population control is only a byproduct. Also, through a historical lense, isn't the total number of people killed decreasing with each successive war?

Concerning population control itself, there's only a limited number of ways to deal with this. I don't see limiting one's lifespan as a solution. As advances are made in the medical field of study, I can't in good faith say we should halt these or even regress on them. This leaves us with conserving/recycling/creating new resources and/or limiting growth through controlled birth policies. We need to advance our technology to help us develop unpopulated lands to make them habitable. This could include better irrigation for living in deserts, creating new islands, or even terraforming new planets for colonization. We need to continue studying the effects of genetically engineered crops. For child birth policies, I hope it doesn't come it to, but we'd need some form of China's One Child policy... obviously it shouldn't be exactly the same, and the religious would be outraged over this due to their command to go forth and populate.

As far as supply and demand, I haven't seen any studies or reports, so I can't comment either way.

I am totally against a pure Darwinian society. Are you saying Stephen Hawking should have been left to die? Humanity should be judged by how we treat the lesser among us.

Now, to the topic of this thread: No and Yes. No because I'm a huge tree huger and say we should never initiate a war. There are other ways to put pressure on our international rivals such as coordinated international pressure and negotiations. Yes for the fact that if one nation is attacked by another nation and provoked into war, it is justifiable to retaliate and quell the threat.

There seems like there should be more I want to say, but it's 2am and my brain stopped working several hours ago.

"The most valuable possession you can own is an open heart. The most powerful weapon you can be is an instrument of peace." -- Carlos Santana
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20-04-2012, 07:27 AM (This post was last modified: 20-04-2012 07:36 AM by Crusher.)
RE: Is War a necessary evil? my thoughts
War is the easiet solution to problems but it can also create far more complicated problems. It's not needed imo, other ways are possible but both sides have to be open for it, like diplomacy or just stop hating eachother.

It's like turkey and their pkk problem. Some kurds want a state of their own, turkey doesn't want to seperate so some kurds start to place bombs in turkish cities, turkish army bombs kurdish camps. Placing bombs in cities isn't going to bring them any closer to a seperate state, it's the other way around. The more bombs they place the further they get from their goal because no one wants to agree with terrorists. Turkey on the other hand bombs camps sometimes but that does nothing also, they might kill a few kurds but as a whole it just pisses the kurds off and possibly give other kurds the reason to join the pkk.

Instead of both stop being idiots and agree with a comprimise. Like a kurdish province or a state still controlled by turkey.

You can't solve violence with more violence unless you completely eradicate the other side and that doesn't happen often.

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20-04-2012, 07:52 AM
RE: Is War a necessary evil? my thoughts
(19-04-2012 10:45 PM)TheAverageGatsby Wrote:  Is War needed right now? it's used as a means of population control and boosting economies. The main method USA used to get out of the Great Depression. Before the US involvement in WWII we sold weapons to the Allies and received reparations after. There isn't a doubt that US and Europe is in great debt due to what's going on in Greece, US Recessions, and prosperity of China's giant labor force. Is it possible that our populations have grown so large and we have such limited resources that prices are rising due to high demand and low supply? More and more cars, computers, Ipads, houses, and others are built every year to sustain a ever growing population and oil, metals, and other materials are being used up. more factories built to push out more products for booming populations. Forests and fields are cut down to make new homes and shopping centers. average lifespans increasing every year due to new medical discoveries and increased child birth compared to deaths.

So wouldn't the solution be to eliminate some of the demand? Survival of the fittest, Darwinism? with the strong left alive there would be plenty of supply to sustain. repeat again in another 300 or so years? is it inevitable?

i was going around the mall and shopping places and noticed horrendously high prices for things and these thoughts poured into my mind. these are pretty macabre ideas imo, but what do you guys think about it? am i just crazy or is this actually the reality of the world we live in but nobody wants to admit this?
Not really a form of "population control" per se, but rather a form of Natural Selection. Smartass

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20-04-2012, 10:51 PM
RE: Is War a necessary evil? my thoughts
(19-04-2012 10:45 PM)TheAverageGatsby Wrote:  Is War needed right now? it's used as a means of population control and boosting economies. The main method USA used to get out of the Great Depression. Before the US involvement in WWII we sold weapons to the Allies and received reparations after. There isn't a doubt that US and Europe is in great debt due to what's going on in Greece, US Recessions, and prosperity of China's giant labor force. Is it possible that our populations have grown so large and we have such limited resources that prices are rising due to high demand and low supply? More and more cars, computers, Ipads, houses, and others are built every year to sustain a ever growing population and oil, metals, and other materials are being used up. more factories built to push out more products for booming populations. Forests and fields are cut down to make new homes and shopping centers. average lifespans increasing every year due to new medical discoveries and increased child birth compared to deaths.

So wouldn't the solution be to eliminate some of the demand? Survival of the fittest, Darwinism? with the strong left alive there would be plenty of supply to sustain. repeat again in another 300 or so years? is it inevitable?

i was going around the mall and shopping places and noticed horrendously high prices for things and these thoughts poured into my mind. these are pretty macabre ideas imo, but what do you guys think about it? am i just crazy or is this actually the reality of the world we live in but nobody wants to admit this?
I agree with Zephony... both population control and economy boosts seem to be byproducts only --- and not even the byproducts of every war. Germany went into an economic depression after WW2 (because a "boost" generally happens for the winner only) and the US went into a depression a little later (because even that economic boost can lead to an economic slump). And there are some wars in which casualties are few or nonexistant.

But it's not that you believe war has been used for population control... instead you seem to be arguing for future population control in the form of mass murder. There is no rational criteria for who would be killed in such an instance, which means that if someone took you up on your offer then your head could be on the chopping block --- does it still sound like a good idea? Furthermore, you're arguing that people should die so that resources could be freed up, although if we really were out of resources then death would happen naturally. Should we kill a bunch of humans to avoid the death of a bunch of humans? To me this idea sounds not only evil but insane.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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21-04-2012, 02:46 AM
RE: Is War a necessary evil? my thoughts
(20-04-2012 10:51 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(19-04-2012 10:45 PM)TheAverageGatsby Wrote:  Is War needed right now? it's used as a means of population control and boosting economies. The main method USA used to get out of the Great Depression. Before the US involvement in WWII we sold weapons to the Allies and received reparations after. There isn't a doubt that US and Europe is in great debt due to what's going on in Greece, US Recessions, and prosperity of China's giant labor force. Is it possible that our populations have grown so large and we have such limited resources that prices are rising due to high demand and low supply? More and more cars, computers, Ipads, houses, and others are built every year to sustain a ever growing population and oil, metals, and other materials are being used up. more factories built to push out more products for booming populations. Forests and fields are cut down to make new homes and shopping centers. average lifespans increasing every year due to new medical discoveries and increased child birth compared to deaths.

So wouldn't the solution be to eliminate some of the demand? Survival of the fittest, Darwinism? with the strong left alive there would be plenty of supply to sustain. repeat again in another 300 or so years? is it inevitable?

i was going around the mall and shopping places and noticed horrendously high prices for things and these thoughts poured into my mind. these are pretty macabre ideas imo, but what do you guys think about it? am i just crazy or is this actually the reality of the world we live in but nobody wants to admit this?
I agree with Zephony... both population control and economy boosts seem to be byproducts only --- and not even the byproducts of every war. Germany went into an economic depression after WW2 (because a "boost" generally happens for the winner only) and the US went into a depression a little later (because even that economic boost can lead to an economic slump). And there are some wars in which casualties are few or nonexistant.

But it's not that you believe war has been used for population control... instead you seem to be arguing for future population control in the form of mass murder. There is no rational criteria for who would be killed in such an instance, which means that if someone took you up on your offer then your head could be on the chopping block --- does it still sound like a good idea? Furthermore, you're arguing that people should die so that resources could be freed up, although if we really were out of resources then death would happen naturally. Should we kill a bunch of humans to avoid the death of a bunch of humans? To me this idea sounds not only evil but insane.
I want to emphasize that difference between a depression and a recession, Starcrash.


But yes, to answer the OP, it is a necessary evil. Just as it is a necessary evil that occurs in nature.

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21-04-2012, 11:24 AM
RE: Is War a necessary evil? my thoughts
Well it does reduce the surplus population, or it used to.

There are no good opponents anymore, and a horrid lack of collateral damage.
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21-04-2012, 11:25 AM (This post was last modified: 21-04-2012 11:28 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Is War a necessary evil? my thoughts
(19-04-2012 10:45 PM)TheAverageGatsby Wrote:  Is War needed right now? it's used as a means of population control and boosting economies. The main method USA used to get out of the Great Depression. Before the US involvement in WWII we sold weapons to the Allies and received reparations after. There isn't a doubt that US and Europe is in great debt due to what's going on in Greece, US Recessions, and prosperity of China's giant labor force. Is it possible that our populations have grown so large and we have such limited resources that prices are rising due to high demand and low supply? More and more cars, computers, Ipads, houses, and others are built every year to sustain a ever growing population and oil, metals, and other materials are being used up. more factories built to push out more products for booming populations. Forests and fields are cut down to make new homes and shopping centers. average lifespans increasing every year due to new medical discoveries and increased child birth compared to deaths.

So wouldn't the solution be to eliminate some of the demand? Survival of the fittest, Darwinism? with the strong left alive there would be plenty of supply to sustain. repeat again in another 300 or so years? is it inevitable?

i was going around the mall and shopping places and noticed horrendously high prices for things and these thoughts poured into my mind. these are pretty macabre ideas imo, but what do you guys think about it? am i just crazy or is this actually the reality of the world we live in but nobody wants to admit this?
Looks like you have some crazy ideas about war. You should go to see it pretty close up, without uniform and without your military camp providing you food and water. It's terrible, dirty and violent thing, full of noise, fear and getting thrown out of your house. My grandma remembers a couple of years of WW2 and it affected her much more than 40 years of Communism. My grandpa almost got executed by the Nazis together with 20 other people, it only saved him that he was the family from which the Nazi chief got the milk. He was never the same afterwards and developed a bad case of OCD from the trauma.


War doesn't significantly decrease population, only demographic revolution can reliably do that. There is no excuse why should war even exist on Earth and plenty of reasons against. War can serve to destroy the old order, and WW1+2 was essential in breaking the power of churches and old colonialist empires, but that's over now. All we need today is a negotiating table to solve problems using our heads.

Prices may be rising, but not because of supply and demand, but because of speculation with resources to drive them up. Part of the speculation is creating the demand by advanced marketing and psychologic techniques (ads). Imagine all these people who got their iPhone only to be cool.

What we need is to stop economic growth, to take natural resources into public hands, to completely change our financial system or what we think of as money. The financial industry must be uprooted, destroyed and banned. It has become by far the greatest industry on the planet, much greater than all national economies combined. Yet it produces nothing.


Darwinian society? There is no such thing! Darwin studied the wilderness where animals kill and eat each other. And that's why they're still animals in the wilderness. The further away we get from that, the better off we will be.

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