Is a Conspiracy Theorist someone who ignorantly believes things,?
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07-10-2013, 09:43 AM
RE: Is a Conspiracy Theorist someone who ignorantly believes things,?
(06-10-2013 06:38 PM)I and I Wrote:  The term "conspiracy theory" are for ideas that go against government.

Every accusation against the US government is a conspiracy theory even if facts are stated.

Example: Declassified Operation Northwoods was a list of ways to start a war with Cuba because after the defeat of the americans by Cuba (here comes a new definition of defeat) in the failed invasion.

One of the methods listed was to hijack airplanes and blame them on cubans. One of the other ways to attack U.S. forces and blame the attack on cubans in order to get support for another war.

Some people are truly stupid, you can show them the declassified documents, then after they read them, they will then say "the U.S. would never ever ever ever ever ever ever attack it's own people or hijack planes and blame them on someone else just to further it's imperial agenda.

It takes some mental gymnastics to be on that level of patriotism.

Oh, hey, it's the I and I syllogism again.

Premise: The US Government did a clandestine thing.
Conclusion: The US Government did another clandestine thing.

Yes. Perfectly logical.

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07-10-2013, 09:51 AM
RE: Is a Conspiracy Theorist someone who ignorantly believes things,?
(07-10-2013 09:43 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(06-10-2013 06:38 PM)I and I Wrote:  The term "conspiracy theory" are for ideas that go against government.

Every accusation against the US government is a conspiracy theory even if facts are stated.

Example: Declassified Operation Northwoods was a list of ways to start a war with Cuba because after the defeat of the americans by Cuba (here comes a new definition of defeat) in the failed invasion.

One of the methods listed was to hijack airplanes and blame them on cubans. One of the other ways to attack U.S. forces and blame the attack on cubans in order to get support for another war.

Some people are truly stupid, you can show them the declassified documents, then after they read them, they will then say "the U.S. would never ever ever ever ever ever ever attack it's own people or hijack planes and blame them on someone else just to further it's imperial agenda.

It takes some mental gymnastics to be on that level of patriotism.

Oh, hey, it's the I and I syllogism again.

Premise: The US Government did a clandestine thing.
Conclusion: The US Government did another clandestine thing.

Yes. Perfectly logical.

Is every conspiracy theory about the damn gummint? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-10-2013, 09:55 AM
RE: Is a Conspiracy Theorist someone who ignorantly believes things,?
(07-10-2013 09:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  Is every conspiracy theory about the damn gummint? Consider

Yes. Let's ask the expert:
(06-10-2013 06:38 PM)I and I Wrote:  The term "conspiracy theory" are for ideas that go against government.

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07-10-2013, 03:00 PM
RE: Is a Conspiracy Theorist someone who ignorantly believes things,?
(07-10-2013 09:43 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(06-10-2013 06:38 PM)I and I Wrote:  The term "conspiracy theory" are for ideas that go against government.

Every accusation against the US government is a conspiracy theory even if facts are stated.

Example: Declassified Operation Northwoods was a list of ways to start a war with Cuba because after the defeat of the americans by Cuba (here comes a new definition of defeat) in the failed invasion.

One of the methods listed was to hijack airplanes and blame them on cubans. One of the other ways to attack U.S. forces and blame the attack on cubans in order to get support for another war.

Some people are truly stupid, you can show them the declassified documents, then after they read them, they will then say "the U.S. would never ever ever ever ever ever ever attack it's own people or hijack planes and blame them on someone else just to further it's imperial agenda.

It takes some mental gymnastics to be on that level of patriotism.

Oh, hey, it's the I and I syllogism again.

Premise: The US Government did a clandestine thing.
Conclusion: The US Government did another clandestine thing.

Yes. Perfectly logical.

No my premise is, the US government did something in the past therefore it is completely illogical to believe that the US wouldn't do that bad thing, it is completely illogical to believe that it is out of their character or that they would never dare do something that they already have done.
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07-10-2013, 03:12 PM
RE: Is a Conspiracy Theorist someone who ignorantly believes things,?
(07-10-2013 03:00 PM)I and I Wrote:  No my premise is, the US government did something in the past therefore it is completely illogical to believe that the US wouldn't do that bad thing, it is completely illogical to believe that it is out of their character or that they would never dare do something that they already have done.

Nope. You keep using that word 'illogical'. I do not think it means what you think it means. You literally just restated the exact same argument.

Your premise is that the US government did A in the past. Very well.
Your (hidden) premise is that B happened.
Corollary - A and B are similar.
Your conclusion is that the US government did B.

That isn't logical even if one grants the hidden premise. It's certainly possible that that interpretation is correct (for any given 'B'). But we didn't need troll logic to tell us that; all things are possible until investigated.

Such things as evidence still play an important role in determining probabilities.

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07-10-2013, 03:23 PM
Is a Conspiracy Theorist someone who ignorantly believes things,?
(07-10-2013 03:12 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(07-10-2013 03:00 PM)I and I Wrote:  No my premise is, the US government did something in the past therefore it is completely illogical to believe that the US wouldn't do that bad thing, it is completely illogical to believe that it is out of their character or that they would never dare do something that they already have done.

Nope. You keep using that word 'illogical'. I do not think it means what you think it means. You literally just restated the exact same argument.

Your premise is that the US government did A in the past. Very well.
Your (hidden) premise is that B happened.
Corollary - A and B are similar.
Your conclusion is that the US government did B.

That isn't logical even if one grants the hidden premise. It's certainly possible that that interpretation is correct (for any given 'B'). But we didn't need troll logic to tell us that; all things are possible until investigated.

Such things as evidence still play an important role in determining probabilities.

Nobody said that A happened because it happened in the past. I am saying that a stupid person would conclude that A happened in the past and could never happen again. That is an illogical belief.

Example: Would the US government kill and harm their own people? Yes or no. Here comes the shuffle kids.
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07-10-2013, 03:40 PM
RE: Is a Conspiracy Theorist someone who ignorantly believes things,?
(07-10-2013 03:23 PM)I and I Wrote:  Nobody said that A happened because it happened in the past. I am saying that a stupid person would conclude that A happened in the past and could never happen again. That is an illogical belief.

Nobody ever claimed that, of course, but why let the little details damp your righteous indignition?

(07-10-2013 03:23 PM)I and I Wrote:  Example: Would the US government kill and harm their own people? Yes or no. Here comes the shuffle kids.

No, no, let's do this properly. Point by point, slick.

Under what circumstances in the past did the US government kill and harm their own people? What is the basis for this conclusion?

Which event, involving the harming and killing of Americans, is under consideration? Why is it supposed that the US government is responsible? What alternative explanations are presented?

Your tortured logic (which you have transparently rephrased) states that because of past events the US government can not necessarily be

It is then left to such things as evidence to inform our subsequent reasoning.

I say 'our' reasoning; but of course, we all know that you rarely bother with such trivialities.

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07-10-2013, 07:13 PM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2013 07:26 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Is a Conspiracy Theorist someone who ignorantly believes things,?
(07-10-2013 03:40 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Under what circumstances in the past did the US government kill and harm their own people?

Tuskegee syphilis experiment. There are others.

The irrationality of the conspiracy nuts is that they are too quick to generalize from the specific and give too much weight to different times and different places. Does anyone think the Germans will ever allow another Holocaust or support another Mengele? No fucking way.

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09-10-2013, 09:53 AM
Is a Conspiracy Theorist someone who ignorantly believes things,?
(07-10-2013 07:13 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-10-2013 03:40 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Under what circumstances in the past did the US government kill and harm their own people?

Tuskegee syphilis experiment. There are others.

The irrationality of the conspiracy nuts is that they are too quick to generalize from the specific and give too much weight to different times and different places. Does anyone think the Germans will ever allow another Holocaust or support another Mengele? No fucking way.

Notice how when bringing up past attacks on Americans by the American government the pro-government people just ignore the past and still maintain the completely illogical idea that the US wouldn't harm it's own people.
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09-10-2013, 10:00 AM
RE: Is a Conspiracy Theorist someone who ignorantly believes things,?
(07-10-2013 07:13 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-10-2013 03:40 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Under what circumstances in the past did the US government kill and harm their own people?

Tuskegee syphilis experiment. There are others.

Yes. I am aware of that and others.

The question is in the use of known events as predictors of unknown events, for which -
(07-10-2013 07:13 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The irrationality of the conspiracy nuts is that they are too quick to generalize from the specific and give too much weight to different times and different places. Does anyone think the Germans will ever allow another Holocaust or support another Mengele? No fucking way.

Just so.

(09-10-2013 09:53 AM)I and I Wrote:  Notice how when bringing up past attacks on Americans by the American government the pro-government people just ignore the past and still maintain the completely illogical idea that the US wouldn't harm it's own people.

Yes, indeed, because that is a claim somebody made.

If you're not capable of interacting with the world as it exists outside your loutish little mind, maybe you shouldn't try?

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