Is agnosticism even a religion?
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07-09-2012, 09:59 AM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2012 10:16 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Is agnosticism even a religion?
It's fascinating that our concept of Agnosticism comes awfully close to
the highest form or ideal in Christian spirituality :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cloud_of_Unknowing ,
and John of the Cross' "Dark Night of the Soul",
which is also a lot like Eastern concepts of Tao.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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07-09-2012, 10:26 AM
RE: Is agnosticism even a religion?
An atheist, an agnostic and a theist are in a 30' cubic room with no windows and one locked door.
Also in the room are 3 chairs and a 5' cubic wooden crate in the center of the room.

The theist looks at the crate and says "We have to get out of here right now. There is a bomb in the crate and it's on a random timer."
The theist begins to react out of fear, banging at the door, trying to get out.

The atheist doesn't believe what the theist has said. There is no evidence of a bomb. Only his assertion of one.
The atheist relaxes in the chair and starts up a conversation with the agnostic. "So what do you believe is in the box" ?

The agnostic remains standing saying "I don't know", neither sitting with the atheist, nor pounding on the door with the theist.

The atheist replies "I didn't ask you what you knew. I asked what you believed. None of knows what is in the box. We are all agnostic in that sense"
"You seem to have an issue with making a declarative statement about what you believe. Why is that ? "

The agnostic replies "I don't know"

Big Grin

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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07-09-2012, 10:39 AM
RE: Is agnosticism even a religion?
As I was reviewing my own post, I began to see the three (atheist, agnostic & theist) as a father, a son and a ghost. Trinity

The father has lived in the world and is wise, only fearing something when there is something to fear. Never letting his imagination control him.
The son, fearing that which he cannot see, imagines all kinds of monsters and demons in the closet ( or in this case, a bomb in a wooden crate)
The ghost is a null position, neither like the father nor the son, unable to believe because he is not human. Humans can imagine. Ghosts are null, without substance, without taking a stance.

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07-09-2012, 10:58 AM
RE: Is agnosticism even a religion?
(07-09-2012 10:39 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  As I was reviewing my own post, I began to see the three (atheist, agnostic & theist) as a father, a son and a ghost. Trinity

The father has lived in the world and is wise, only fearing something when there is something to fear. Never letting his imagination control him.
The son, fearing that which he cannot see, imagines all kinds of monsters and demons in the closet ( or in this case, a bomb in a wooden crate)
The ghost is a null position, neither like the father nor the son, unable to believe because he is not human. Humans can imagine. Ghosts are null, without substance, without taking a stance.

Taking that a step further, if it's the Christian Trinity, then in your analogy the Father (atheist) would be God who is an atheist with regard to his own existence. The Son, Jesus, is afraid of monsters in the closet, and the Holy Ghost it too clueless to stick his incorporeal head into the box to see for himself.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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07-09-2012, 11:46 AM
RE: Is agnosticism even a religion?
The problem with labels is that they aren't always correct. I do not believe there is a deity of any sort. I am fairly certain of that but not 100%. If one appeared and demonstrated their powers to the world (not just me) I would accept them as as some supernatural being (assuming no explanation for their power). So I think that in the labeling system, since I can't rule out a deity 100%, I am agnostic. However, I label myself as an atheist since I think agnostic is too wishy washy to explain my view.
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07-09-2012, 11:47 AM
RE: Is agnosticism even a religion?
Can someone explain the difference between someone being Atheist and someone being Agnostic? Please.
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07-09-2012, 11:54 AM
RE: Is agnosticism even a religion?
(07-09-2012 11:47 AM)xLegendofLink096x Wrote:  Can someone explain the difference between someone being Atheist and someone being Agnostic? Please.

There isn't necessarily a difference. I'm an agnostic atheist, it means I don't believe in a God but I don't think there's a way to prove 100% he doesn't exist.

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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
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Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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07-09-2012, 11:57 AM
RE: Is agnosticism even a religion?
(07-09-2012 11:54 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(07-09-2012 11:47 AM)xLegendofLink096x Wrote:  Can someone explain the difference between someone being Atheist and someone being Agnostic? Please.

There isn't necessarily a difference. I'm an agnostic atheist, it means I don't believe in a God but I don't think there's a way to prove 100% he doesn't exist.

Thank you for the explanation, darling. Hug

"You don't disappoint me.... I think your much braver than you may believe."
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07-09-2012, 12:21 PM
RE: Is agnosticism even a religion?
Some people sure do get religious about their agnosticism... Ghost... Big Grin

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07-09-2012, 12:45 PM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2012 12:50 PM by Ghost.)
RE: Is agnosticism even a religion?
Hey, Rahn.

Quote:Ghosts are null, without substance, without taking a stance.

Boo!

Hey, Aseptic.

Quote:The Son, Jesus, is afraid of monsters in the closet, and the Holy Ghost it too clueless to stick his incorporeal head into the box to see for himself.

Oh wow, resorting to insults. What a treat.

Hey, Cantor.

<shakes his fists Yosemite Sam-style> Why I aughta... </shakes his fists Yosemite Sam-style>

But to be specific, I am not religious about my Agnosticism. It is not a creed. It is a method. I am vigorous in my application of that method. I do, however, defend my self-definition with gusto and pride Cool

Hey, XLLX.

Quote:Can someone explain the difference between someone being Atheist and someone being Agnostic? Please.

I can explain it to you as I see it; however, for many on this site, there is little to no difference.

An Atheist lacks a belief in God. Why they lack that belief and/or what they do believe is not accounted for in their Atheism. Unless you resort to the Strong/Weak Atheist model, in which Weak Atheists simply lack a belief while Strong Atheists believe that there is no God. There is also the Dawkins Scale. An Agnostic would be number 4, and an Atheist would be numbers 5-7.

Some Atheists use Agnostic as a qualifier, ie, Agnostic Atheist; meaning someone who lacks a belief but does not know... something. I actually can't think of what that is. Can someone hook me up on that one?

An Agnostic vigorously applies a single principle to all things; don't pretend that things are certain when they are neither demonstrated nor demonstrable. This is why an Agnostic cannot be Agnostic "about" something. We apply this principle vigorously and uniformly. I am an hockey player if I play hockey and I am an Agnostic if I vigorously apply this principle. I can no more be Agnostic about something than I can be hockey about something. Our beliefs are the result of the application of this method. For example, I believe in gravity (demonstrated positive), I disbelieve Eugenics (demonstrated negative) and I reserve my judgement on whether there is life on Europa (undemonstrated) and I reserve my judgement on whether there is a God (indemonstrable).

ON EDIT: Theoretically, if you ask an Agnostic what their religion is, or whether or not they believe in God, the most precise response/definition would be Undecided. But because no Agnostic, anywhere in the world, has a single shred of evidence either for or against the existence of God, Agnostics are uniformly undecided on the God question. So Agnostic becomes a shorthand for our religion. Theoretically though, the question "Religion:______" is biased because if someone doesn't have a religion, they shouldn't be able to fill it in. Atheism is not a religion, it's not-religion. Atheists should fill that in with Non-Religious or Irreligious. So practically speaking, people use non-religious terms to describe their "religion" all the time.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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