Is an eternal universe possible or detectable?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-10-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Is an eternal universe possible or detectable?
(14-10-2016 09:55 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Here is the deal: I love science and I love learning scientific things, especially about the universe. But I'm about to write something now that I'm aware may make me look absolutely ignorant. Forgive me.

So, when theists say their god is eternal, many atheists or just scientists like to retort with, "If your god can be eternal then why can't the universe be eternal?" It's a defense I've used.

But for some reason I had this thought the other day: If the universe were truly eternal, then how is it that we are able to truly date materials accurately? In other words, I basically understand how carbon/radio-dating works, but if the universe is eternal, wouldn't all matter, in turn, be eternal, regardless of how it was repurposed out of exploding stars?

Even if dating only works to measure through decay, aren't the atoms/quarks/subatomic particles of all organic matter just repurposed? And wouldn't those ultimately be eternal in an eternal universe? Is it that we just don't have the tools/techniques yet to properly measure something that small, and if we ever develop those that we'd finally have the answer to the question of the universe's true age?

Let the flaming begin.

Matter may be 're-purposed' from supernovas, but the atoms thereof are created anew from subatomic particles. Radioactive dating depends on the decay of atoms, not elementary particles.

And radio-dating works because the earth itself has a 'start date' that zeroes those radioactive clocks.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Chas's post
15-10-2016, 02:40 PM
RE: Is an eternal universe possible or detectable?
I don't know. And I probably never will.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Commonsensei's post
15-10-2016, 03:02 PM
RE: Is an eternal universe possible or detectable?
(15-10-2016 02:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-10-2016 09:55 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Here is the deal: I love science and I love learning scientific things, especially about the universe. But I'm about to write something now that I'm aware may make me look absolutely ignorant. Forgive me.

So, when theists say their god is eternal, many atheists or just scientists like to retort with, "If your god can be eternal then why can't the universe be eternal?" It's a defense I've used.

But for some reason I had this thought the other day: If the universe were truly eternal, then how is it that we are able to truly date materials accurately? In other words, I basically understand how carbon/radio-dating works, but if the universe is eternal, wouldn't all matter, in turn, be eternal, regardless of how it was repurposed out of exploding stars?

Even if dating only works to measure through decay, aren't the atoms/quarks/subatomic particles of all organic matter just repurposed? And wouldn't those ultimately be eternal in an eternal universe? Is it that we just don't have the tools/techniques yet to properly measure something that small, and if we ever develop those that we'd finally have the answer to the question of the universe's true age?

Let the flaming begin.

Matter may be 're-purposed' from supernovas, but the atoms thereof are created anew from subatomic particles. Radioactive dating depends on the decay of atoms, not elementary particles.

And radio-dating works because the earth itself has a 'start date' that zeroes those radioactive clocks.

Thanks, Chas. So, the subatomic particles, can they be found to be eternal with no age or birth date?

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
----
Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-10-2016, 08:43 PM
RE: Is an eternal universe possible or detectable?
(15-10-2016 03:02 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 02:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  Matter may be 're-purposed' from supernovas, but the atoms thereof are created anew from subatomic particles. Radioactive dating depends on the decay of atoms, not elementary particles.

And radio-dating works because the earth itself has a 'start date' that zeroes those radioactive clocks.

Thanks, Chas. So, the subatomic particles, can they be found to be eternal with no age or birth date?

Do you mean can they be eternal or do you mean can we determine whether they are eternal? Consider

I think they were created as the temperature of the universe decreased as it expanded. First came the quarks, then it became cool enough for quarks to combine into hadrons.
N.B. This is an oversimplification.

So I don't think matter as we know it is eternal.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
15-10-2016, 09:50 PM
RE: Is an eternal universe possible or detectable?
It's like saying
Ice cubes are made of water molecules.
Water molecules are made from hydrogen & oxygen.
Hydrogen & oxygen have been around for billions of years.

Does that mean ice cubes from you freezer have been around for billions of years ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Rahn127's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: