Is atheism prideful?
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24-05-2017, 10:11 AM (This post was last modified: 24-05-2017 03:52 PM by GMSkeptic.)
Is atheism prideful?
I was just going over an old email from a family member who had just discovered I was an atheist. They had asked me about why I deconverted so I explained my perspective, told my deconversion story, and included some links to some Cosmic Skeptic videos that explained my points. Part of their response was this:

"As I continue to read through your story and watch the videos there's a single thread that comes through. The thread is pride. All of these "proofs" are based on what you want or need. You are smart, brilliant in fact, but you have become puffed up to the point you believe your creator has something to prove to you, on your time table and in your way. The pridefulness of the young man in the video about God makes me physically sick to my stomach. That's pride over and over. I pray you never become that prideful."

I found this pretty ridiculous. I never thought I was placing myself above God or believers somehow. I felt I was taking the humble position. I'd been a believer all my life, asserting I knew ultimate truth, but now I realize that I don't. All I know is what I can perceive and reason through as a flawed human being, and my arguments are just my best attempt at that. I could be wrong and I'm open to changing my position if evidence demand it. I'm not claiming superior understanding through divine revelation.

TL;DR version: I've been called prideful for being an atheist. I think my skepticism is a humble position because I'm not claiming divine knowledge and I'm 100% open to changing my position if it's proven invalid.

Opinions? Is atheism prideful? Are religious people just projecting when they say that?

EDIT: Woah, thanks for all the replies, everyone! I'm thinking of posting a video I made on the subject but I didn't want to spam the forum with self promotion. But I may post it since you guys are interested in the topic.
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24-05-2017, 10:22 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
(24-05-2017 10:11 AM)GMSkeptic Wrote:  I was just going over an old email from a family member who had just discovered I was an atheist. They had asked me about why I deconverted so I explained my perspective, told my deconversion story, and included some links to some Cosmic Skeptic videos that explained my points. Part of their response was this:

"As I continue to read through your story and watch the videos there's a single thread that comes through. The thread is pride. All of these "proofs" are based on what you want or need. You are smart, brilliant in fact, but you have become puffed up to the point you believe your creator has something to prove to you, on your time table and in your way. The pridefulness of the young man in the video about God makes me physically sick to my stomach. That's pride over and over. I pray you never become that prideful."

I found this pretty ridiculous. I never thought I was placing myself above God or believers somehow. I felt I was taking the humble position. I'd been a believer all my life, asserting I knew ultimate truth, but now I realize that I don't. All I know is what I can perceive and reason through as a flawed human being, and my arguments are just my best attempt at that. I could be wrong and I'm open to changing my position if evidence demand it. I'm not claiming superior understanding through divine revelation.

TL;DR version: I've been called prideful for being an atheist. I think my skepticism is a humble position because I'm not claiming divine knowledge and I'm 100% open to changing my position if it's proven invalid.

Opinions? Is atheism prideful? Are religious people just projecting when they say that?

Any position can be prideful, depending on your motivation for taking that position. James Joyce (famous author) apparently rebelled against God ("non serviam") but never stopped believing. That would be prideful, I guess. Ceasing to believe because it no longer makes sense would not be.

Anyway, the ultimate in pride, in my opinion, is to think that you're so smart that you know God exists, and you also know that the God that exists is the Christian God, and you're so special that he cares about you specifically, and will reward or punish you for all eternity based on what you believe and/or how you live. I don't know how anyone could be any more prideful than that.
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24-05-2017, 10:23 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
Quote:I was just going over an old email from a family member who had just discovered I was an atheist. They had asked me about why I deconverted so I explained my perspective, told my deconversion story, and included some links to some Cosmic Skeptic videos that explained my points. Part of their response was this:

"As I continue to read through your story and watch the videos there's a single thread that comes through. The thread is pride. All of these "proofs" are based on what you want or need. You are smart, brilliant in fact, but you have become puffed up to the point you believe your creator has something to prove to you, on your time table and in your way. The pridefulness of the young man in the video about God makes me physically sick to my stomach. That's pride over and over. I pray you never become that prideful."

"As I continue to read through your story and watch the videos there's a single thread that comes through. The thread is reason. All of these "proofs" are based on what you want or need. You are smart, brilliant in fact, but you have become reasonable to the point you believe your creator has something to prove to you, on your time table and in your way. The logic of the young man in the video about God makes me physically sick to my stomach. That's logic over and over. I pray you never become that logical."

No. Atheism is not prideful, it is intellectually honest, and rigorous in its demands for evidence. Hitchen's law: "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."

No evidence, no reason to believe it's plausible. Religion is simply a lack of understanding of science and history, or a dishonest enquiry into the two.

Quote:I found this pretty ridiculous. I never thought I was placing myself above God or believers somehow. I felt I was taking the humble position. I'd been a believer all my life, asserting I knew ultimate truth, but now I realize that I don't. All I know is what I can perceive and reason through as a flawed human being, and my arguments are just my best attempt at that. I could be wrong and I'm open to changing my position if evidence demand it. I'm not claiming superior understanding through divine revelation.

TL;DR version: I've been called prideful for being an atheist. I think my skepticism is a humble position because I'm not claiming divine knowledge and I'm 100% open to changing my position if it's proven invalid.

Precisely. You're being intellectually honest with yourself.

Quote:Are religious people just projecting when they say that?

They're accepting the claims of ancient texts without evidence, and are threatened when you ask for some. That's my take on the issue.

Regards! Smile

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
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24-05-2017, 10:23 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
Nope, not in my opinion and certainly not in the sense that religious people mean it. Not to say that atheists can't be prideful or arrogant- after all, that's a very human trait- but that coming to a point where you're not convinced there is a god is not a prideful thing.

So, you are right, the pride is in claiming to have knowledge that there is a god. Not in saying that I don't see sufficient evidence to suggest that there is one.
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24-05-2017, 10:23 AM (This post was last modified: 24-05-2017 01:05 PM by Vera.)
RE: Is atheism prideful?
No.

What *is* the epitome of arrogance (prideful sounds the type of word only a religionist would use, like sin) is to think the entire UNIVERSE, with its BILLIONS OF GALAXIES was created especially for YOU and that the creator of this immensity is personally watching over you and helping with every tiny step of your life, like finding your keys or not missing your train. And that you're so important and irreplaceable, you're going to live forever and ever, even after the heat death of the Universe.

Next. Drinking Beverage

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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24-05-2017, 10:27 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
I don't how one can compare the atheist's perspective to the theist's and conclude that WE are the more prideful or arrogant.

Most atheists I know stand humbled before the vastness of the universe, in full appreciation of the minuscule odds of our fleeting existence in the grand scheme of space time. We're a happy accident and there's no reason to assume otherwise.

Most theists, on the other hand, contend not only that there is a god who created ALL OF THIS for our use and enjoyment, but who is also personally invested in our individual actions, decisions, and outcomes - AND if we're good boys and girls, there's ANOTHER ENTIRE UNIVERSE awaiting us for eternity after we die.

Which view sounds more prideful to you?
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24-05-2017, 10:36 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
(24-05-2017 10:11 AM)GMSkeptic Wrote:  I was just going over an old email from a family member who had just discovered I was an atheist. They had asked me about why I deconverted so I explained my perspective, told my deconversion story, and included some links to some Cosmic Skeptic videos that explained my points. Part of their response was this:

"As I continue to read through your story and watch the videos there's a single thread that comes through. The thread is pride. All of these "proofs" are based on what you want or need. You are smart, brilliant in fact, but you have become puffed up to the point you believe your creator has something to prove to you, on your time table and in your way. The pridefulness of the young man in the video about God makes me physically sick to my stomach. That's pride over and over. I pray you never become that prideful."

I found this pretty ridiculous. I never thought I was placing myself above God or believers somehow. I felt I was taking the humble position. I'd been a believer all my life, asserting I knew ultimate truth, but now I realize that I don't. All I know is what I can perceive and reason through as a flawed human being, and my arguments are just my best attempt at that. I could be wrong and I'm open to changing my position if evidence demand it. I'm not claiming superior understanding through divine revelation.

TL;DR version: I've been called prideful for being an atheist. I think my skepticism is a humble position because I'm not claiming divine knowledge and I'm 100% open to changing my position if it's proven invalid.

Opinions? Is atheism prideful? Are religious people just projecting when they say that?

Most religions make demands of submission, so when someone asserts you are prideful, it's just another way of saying you aren't being submissive to my religion and how dare you question the religion.

I don't see the problem here......

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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24-05-2017, 10:37 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
Pride is a sin, but being a smug bastard isn't?

I have pride in my family/work/my life overall. A religious person can be "smug" as they [think they] know there is a god, which makes you a bit of a pillock at times.

"I don't do magic, Morty, I do science. One takes brains, the other takes dark eye liner" - Rick
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24-05-2017, 10:39 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
(24-05-2017 10:11 AM)GMSkeptic Wrote:  I was just going over an old email from a family member who had just discovered I was an atheist. They had asked me about why I deconverted so I explained my perspective, told my deconversion story, and included some links to some Cosmic Skeptic videos that explained my points. Part of their response was this:

"As I continue to read through your story and watch the videos there's a single thread that comes through. The thread is pride. All of these "proofs" are based on what you want or need. You are smart, brilliant in fact, but you have become puffed up to the point you believe your creator has something to prove to you, on your time table and in your way. The pridefulness of the young man in the video about God makes me physically sick to my stomach. That's pride over and over. I pray you never become that prideful."

I found this pretty ridiculous. I never thought I was placing myself above God or believers somehow. I felt I was taking the humble position. I'd been a believer all my life, asserting I knew ultimate truth, but now I realize that I don't. All I know is what I can perceive and reason through as a flawed human being, and my arguments are just my best attempt at that. I could be wrong and I'm open to changing my position if evidence demand it. I'm not claiming superior understanding through divine revelation.

TL;DR version: I've been called prideful for being an atheist. I think my skepticism is a humble position because I'm not claiming divine knowledge and I'm 100% open to changing my position if it's proven invalid.

Opinions? Is atheism prideful? Are religious people just projecting when they say that?

Is atheism prideful? No, because atheism doesn't possess any dogma or beliefs to be prideful of.

Are you prideful? Probably because most of us are. Theists trying fight their pride or claim that their pride isn't a factor in their lives is dishonest, whether intentional or not is another issue.

And asking for evidence of something being true isn't about pride. It is about figuring out what is and isn't true. Which is especially important if it is about something which you are expected to base your life on. And when it comes to the Christian god, it had no problem demonstrating itself to the people in the bible. So why is it now a matter of pride to expect the same god to provide even the most basic evidence of its existence when there is precedent?

This kind of rebuttal from your family has nothing to do really with your pride, and more to do with theirs. It would be a devastating blow to their pride if they were wrong. So instead of considering that option seriously, they choose to appeal to your emotions to try and make you feel bad about wanting answers. Break you down and then tell you that only religion can build you back up. It is emotional blackmail

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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24-05-2017, 10:45 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
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