Is atheism prideful?
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24-05-2017, 11:00 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
I am prideful, full of pride. But it has nothing to do with religion.

I am proud of my garden, it is exactly what I wanted it to be and it is wonderful for me.

I am proud of my life so far, I have been poor and rich and in between, and I took it all in stride and emerged fine on the other end.

I am proud of my Great Dane, she has grown into a beautiful, well mannered, affectionate and loyal dog.

Lots more things I am proud of. Others, not so much.

There is nothing wrong with pride.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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24-05-2017, 11:32 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
(24-05-2017 10:36 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(24-05-2017 10:11 AM)GMSkeptic Wrote:  I was just going over an old email from a family member who had just discovered I was an atheist. They had asked me about why I deconverted so I explained my perspective, told my deconversion story, and included some links to some Cosmic Skeptic videos that explained my points. Part of their response was this:

"As I continue to read through your story and watch the videos there's a single thread that comes through. The thread is pride. All of these "proofs" are based on what you want or need. You are smart, brilliant in fact, but you have become puffed up to the point you believe your creator has something to prove to you, on your time table and in your way. The pridefulness of the young man in the video about God makes me physically sick to my stomach. That's pride over and over. I pray you never become that prideful."

I found this pretty ridiculous. I never thought I was placing myself above God or believers somehow. I felt I was taking the humble position. I'd been a believer all my life, asserting I knew ultimate truth, but now I realize that I don't. All I know is what I can perceive and reason through as a flawed human being, and my arguments are just my best attempt at that. I could be wrong and I'm open to changing my position if evidence demand it. I'm not claiming superior understanding through divine revelation.

TL;DR version: I've been called prideful for being an atheist. I think my skepticism is a humble position because I'm not claiming divine knowledge and I'm 100% open to changing my position if it's proven invalid.

Opinions? Is atheism prideful? Are religious people just projecting when they say that?

Most religions make demands of submission, so when someone asserts you are prideful, it's just another way of saying you aren't being submissive to my religion and how dare you question the religion.

I don't see the problem here......

Bingo. From their point of view the pride is in not assuming god has everything under control. Only god can know things about us and the universe, and to pretend you can too is putting youself on an equal pedestal with god. Unforgivably prideful.

Course, I'd rather be prideful (even in the perjoritive way it's being used here) than deaf, dumb, and blind.
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24-05-2017, 11:35 AM
Is atheism prideful?
Believers accusing atheists of being pridefull are hillarious. It's not atheists who believe that creator of entire universe cares about them. So, it's nothing more than projection.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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24-05-2017, 11:38 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
I hate it when I disagree with something and people (fellow theists) roast me for it, I mean sure if you want to be self-depreciating and say you've achieved nothing without the help of God fine..

But to me, all my achievements are my own and I'm incredibly proud of that

Oh no. He's here - God
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24-05-2017, 11:54 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
They're trying to "gaslight" you, in other words to get you to doubt your own intellect (and thus, sanity, since you consider your intellect sufficient to suss out the nature of the universe around us, rather than accepting ancient scriptures about magic to be the only viable source of knowledge), because their entire cult centers around that idea-- "trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding". Name a cult in the history of cults that had any other basis.

But when they accuse you of pride, tell them, "No, I ask for proof because I am humble. I will not be so proud as to think I know something that has not been demonstrated by verifiable evidence and proved to my satisfaction. I am content to recognize my limitations, admit my ignorance, and to not believe in things that I claim are true without evidence because I simply want them to be true."

And if you're feeling extra-belligerent, you can add, "What you are doing, asserting that you know something you cannot know, is the height of pride. How dare you project your pride onto me?"

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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24-05-2017, 11:59 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
(24-05-2017 10:11 AM)GMSkeptic Wrote:  Is atheism prideful? Are religious people just projecting when they say that?
Short answer: No and yes.

Longer answer: Atheists have been accused of pride / arrogance, rebelliousness, licentiousness, bitterness, anger, hatred of god, and any number of other things by theists. These are in my experience all deflections from the simple fact that they don't have any cogent, rational, fact-based response to the ACTUAL reasons that atheists give for rejecting (or, more often, leaving) their faith. In fact, in my experience, they most often have no INTEREST in the actual reasons. They make them up for us, rather than ask us about them, and they certainly are going to refuse to believe the answers we offer.

It is so much easier to caricature unbelievers as villains than to understand their actual motivations and to address them. Particularly when believers cannot address the actual issues. Which are: it is not intellectually honest or responsible to afford belief to the unsubstantiated; invisible beings and realms are unfalsifiable and therefore no one can take a credible knowledge position for OR against them.

I'm an atheist because I don't afford belief to things that are unsubstantiated (and, often, unsubstantiatABLE). I am also a skeptic and a humanist and an empiricist and generally pro-science for the same reasons. I do not want license to live as I please without regard to others, i do not hate god, am not bitter toward the church, do not misunderstand church doctrine and am not arrogant or prideful about it.

Another thing going on here is that many theists define "prideful" or "arrogant" as "disagreeing with my dogma of choice". That is not what pride (or, in context, really, arrogance) is. It's an outsize opinions of one's importance or abilities. As an atheist, actually, I have a MUCH REDUCED opinion of my importance in what passes for the great scheme of things, compared to when I was a believer. I no longer have the unbridled arrogance for example to think that the creator of heaven and earth is interested in what I eat for breakfast or has his feelings hurt if I don't talk to him every day.

So yes ... it is projection, combined with deflection.
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24-05-2017, 12:11 PM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
(24-05-2017 10:45 AM)big green mouth Wrote:  [Image: 2hykowj.jpg]

OT: I've always really liked Tim Minchin's look. Rock and roller, breaking gender norms, that eye-liner and the beard and long unkempt hair, etc.
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24-05-2017, 12:15 PM (This post was last modified: 24-05-2017 12:20 PM by dancefortwo.)
RE: Is atheism prideful?
(24-05-2017 10:11 AM)GMSkeptic Wrote:  I was just going over an old email from a family member who had just discovered I was an atheist. They had asked me about why I deconverted so I explained my perspective, told my deconversion story, and included some links to some Cosmic Skeptic videos that explained my points. Part of their response was this:

"As I continue to read through your story and watch the videos there's a single thread that comes through. The thread is pride. All of these "proofs" are based on what you want or need. You are smart, brilliant in fact, but you have become puffed up to the point you believe your creator has something to prove to you, on your time table and in your way. The pridefulness of the young man in the video about God makes me physically sick to my stomach. That's pride over and over. I pray you never become that prideful."

I found this pretty ridiculous. I never thought I was placing myself above God or believers somehow. I felt I was taking the humble position. I'd been a believer all my life, asserting I knew ultimate truth, but now I realize that I don't. All I know is what I can perceive and reason through as a flawed human being, and my arguments are just my best attempt at that. I could be wrong and I'm open to changing my position if evidence demand it. I'm not claiming superior understanding through divine revelation.

TL;DR version: I've been called prideful for being an atheist. I think my skepticism is a humble position because I'm not claiming divine knowledge and I'm 100% open to changing my position if it's proven invalid.

Opinions? Is atheism prideful? Are religious people just projecting when they say that?

(24-05-2017 10:11 AM)GMSkeptic Wrote:  All of these "proofs" are based on what you want or need.

Oh really?!

Christianity is based on what people think they want and need. They want a god and need an afterlife.

Quote:The thread is pride.

Christianity is full of self centered pride. The entire religion is based on humans' being the center of the universe which was created especially just for them. Awwww....isn't that nice. Furthermore, Christians think they are the most important people on this earth with the most important religion, that has the most important message...... and all other religions are second class or evil. Talk about pride.....geesh.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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24-05-2017, 01:39 PM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
What is really "prideful" is someone telling you you're "puffed up".
Remind them "Judge not, lest ye be judged".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-05-2017, 01:54 PM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
I just remember that "Oh, stop being so bold and proud" was what the nuns used to say to us when we Catholic school girls dared to ask tough questions in religion class.
Rather than a rebuke, I took it as a compliment.

Your faith is not evidence, your opinion is not fact, and your bias is not wisdom
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