Is atheism prideful?
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25-05-2017, 07:11 AM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2017 07:32 AM by GenesisNemesis.)
RE: Is atheism prideful?
If you still don't understand why people might judge you because you voted for Trump, you're being willfully ignorant. "I voted for a guy who's a total idiot and a narcissist. Why's everyone judging me?" Laugh out load

By the way, I understand why some people voted for him. What I don't understand is why anyone believes a word he says. Anyway, this is a derail.

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25-05-2017, 05:18 PM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
(24-05-2017 10:45 AM)big green mouth Wrote:  [Image: 2hykowj.jpg]



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25-05-2017, 08:23 PM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
RocketSurgeon Wrote:We don't think a person is horrible because they believe in God. We pity those who do
Ok, and many believers pity those who don't believe in God.


RocketSurgeon Wrote:Similarly, we don't care that you voted for Trump, we care about the ideas that you absorb from some really awful people on the right,
Many people on the right care about those ideas that are absorbed by many people from some awful people on the left.
I was told that because I voted for Trump I HATE poor and sick.

This means to me that those progressives believe in their MORAL superiority. Some believers in God believe in their MORAL superiority.

Some progressives on this forum claim the same thing some Christians claim - moral superiority. If you don't accept my moral standard you are a bad person.

I don't see difference between those kind of Christians and those kind Progressives.

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25-05-2017, 08:34 PM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
GenesisNemesis Wrote:If you still don't understand why people might judge you because you voted for Trump, you're being willfully ignorant.
I understand it very well. According to them I voted for Trump because I hate poor and sick.
You say that I am wilfully ignorant. Again - you claim that you are more superior than I am. I am the one who is ignorant but you are super, duper educated and sophisticated.

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25-05-2017, 10:13 PM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
(25-05-2017 08:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  
RocketSurgeon Wrote:We don't think a person is horrible because they believe in God. We pity those who do
Ok, and many believers pity those who don't believe in God.

Of course you do. You just don't realize that we do it back, most of the time.

(25-05-2017 08:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  
RocketSurgeon Wrote:Similarly, we don't care that you voted for Trump, we care about the ideas that you absorb from some really awful people on the right,
Many people on the right care about those ideas that are absorbed by many people from some awful people on the left.

What ideas from what awful people on the left? What do you think is the liberal equivalent of the Heritage Foundation, or any of the literally dozens of well-funded, high profile corporate propaganda machines that feed the daily Talking Points memos that they all repeat on corporate media... a practice so transparent that The Daily Show became famous for lampooning (by showing each of the GOP mouthpieces saying the same exact words the same way, on the same day, one after another) it.

What, pray tell, do you think is the liberal equivalent? We do tend to read a lot of nonfiction books; I suppose that might count.

(25-05-2017 08:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  I was told that because I voted for Trump I HATE poor and sick.

Trump pretty clearly has nothing but contempt for the poor and sick, as made manifest by almost literally everything related to that subject he has done since attaining office, including most of the budget proposals he just laid out, which gut many of the primary programs designed to protect people who live in poor areas from getting polluted into sickness (that were put in place because it was happening) by mining and chemical companies, which takes away medical care programs and even winter heating programs, and much, much more.

So yes, I think it was unfair to say that your vote for him meant you think those things are okay... after all, much of what he has done has been in opposition to what he promised on the campaign trail... but your continued support of him despite all the things he is doing tells me that you're probably not a very empathic/sympathetic person. It is not a giant leap to conclude that your support of this man means you have no feeling for the poor and sick.

(25-05-2017 08:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  This means to me that those progressives believe in their MORAL superiority. Some believers in God believe in their MORAL superiority.

Some progressives on this forum claim the same thing some Christians claim - moral superiority. If you don't accept my moral standard you are a bad person.

I don't see difference between those kind of Christians and those kind Progressives.

False equivalence. Believers in God claim their book gives them moral superiority, based on acceptance of the scriptures as unquestionably true. Progressives rely on principles that are pretty generally understood to be universal moral principles, unless corrupted by some overriding ideology (like "greed is good" or "religion says ____"), which they think should apply to political decisions as well as personal ones. Very few people would think it is acceptable to let others come to harm when it is in your power to stop it. Very few people think it's okay to let Grandma Millie freeze in the winter because she can't afford to pay for it and the guys at Enron smell bigger profits by letting people like her suffer while they control the prices on the market.

When you say you consider it morally acceptable to let people die, in order to promote an agenda, it's pretty reasonable to say you are an immoral person, by the standards of... well, almost anybody, Christian or not. Most people are unaware that their support of people like Trump and the corporate profiteers in the GOP means they are supporting the suffering of their fellow Americans, and that's too bad but it's not a sin to be ignorant. However, once we have pointed out to you what the cause-and-effect of the things you support actually are, and you still support them, you don't get to whine about being called immoral. You have chosen to be willfully supportive of teaching a lesson by letting people suffer and possibly die.

Including me. Don't think I'm going to let you throw a pity party for yourself and pretend to be a self-righteous martyr when you advocate for policies that will literally result in my death.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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26-05-2017, 05:29 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
(25-05-2017 08:34 PM)Alla Wrote:  
GenesisNemesis Wrote:If you still don't understand why people might judge you because you voted for Trump, you're being willfully ignorant.
I understand it very well. According to them I voted for Trump because I hate poor and sick.
You say that I am wilfully ignorant. Again - you claim that you are more superior than I am. I am the one who is ignorant but you are super, duper educated and sophisticated.

Well considered morals are always superior to morals from a book.
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26-05-2017, 05:38 AM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2017 05:44 AM by mordant.)
RE: Is atheism prideful?
(25-05-2017 08:34 PM)Alla Wrote:  
GenesisNemesis Wrote:If you still don't understand why people might judge you because you voted for Trump, you're being willfully ignorant.
I understand it very well. According to them I voted for Trump because I hate poor and sick.
You say that I am wilfully ignorant. Again - you claim that you are more superior than I am. I am the one who is ignorant but you are super, duper educated and sophisticated.
Everyone has moral convictions and believes them to be correct and therefore, inherently, superior to INcorrect ones.

The conflict between conservative and progressive notions of social progress is not so much that conservatives want people to suffer or even necessarily that they don't care that people suffer. It is a difference in views concerning the causes and cures of suffering.

If you believe that people are depraved and that suffering is a result of that depravity, perhaps representing god's judgment, then by alleviating human suffering you are working against god.

If on the other hand you believe that human suffering is at least mostly a result of bad luck and that such risks can and should be spread evenly through society, you will be more likely to see the suffering as unfortunate rather than unrighteous.

Nor is the latter point of view incompatible with Christianity; many, many Christians have reconciled Christianity with this on the basis of compassion, empathy, and mercy. Within Christianity, it is really a question of whether you are authoritarian or not. If your god is the angry war-god of the Hebrews, doling out retribution and judgment, then you will assume that people's misfortunes are their own damn fault, and will be remedied by "turning to god" and "repenting" and so forth. If your god is the humble, kindly, entreating, gentle Jesus, then you are far more likely to deal gently with the unfortunate and ignorant.

That some progressives are as unctuous and judgmental as some fundamentalist Christians has nothing to do with whether they are more or less effective in dealing with human suffering. People often do the right things for the wrong reasons, and the wrong things for the right reasons.

One thing I am quite certain of, though, is that anytime someone defends their views by ad hominem attacks on people with opposing views and/or straw man deflections, I do not give much credence to their arguments or thinking. If you think for example that Trump's health care bill would not throw millions off insurance or that this would be a good thing, substantiate it with facts that it would be good public policy, not by whining that you are being accused of moral inferiority, willful ignorance, or stupidity. Simply demonstrate how you are NOT willfully ignorant and how your ideas are NOT stupid by mounting a rational, fact-based defense of your ideas.
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26-05-2017, 06:31 AM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2017 06:38 AM by OakTree500.)
RE: Is atheism prideful?
Edit: never mind, I completely mis-read your post.

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26-05-2017, 06:34 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
(25-05-2017 08:34 PM)Alla Wrote:  
GenesisNemesis Wrote:If you still don't understand why people might judge you because you voted for Trump, you're being willfully ignorant.
I understand it very well. According to them I voted for Trump because I hate poor and sick.
You say that I am wilfully ignorant. Again - you claim that you are more superior than I am. I am the one who is ignorant but you are super, duper educated and sophisticated.

agreed.

I didn't vote for trump. I voted against the direction the country was heading. It seems some liberals are so literal that they can't see past the emotions at the end of their noses.

I voted for a non politician. As with all rookies, there will have mistakes. trump is not pretty, but his base premise is better than anything hill billary chiton has.

Well, unless you feel that its ok to steal money from people and give it to people that shoot it in their arms, don't parent, beat, rob, and steal from their community stores and economic resources.

Piss on all the free education, tax breaks, and all the other 100's of million of dollars given to them.

liberals are lost in a fog of emotion caught in an adolescent brain. They don't understand that freedom is the limit of freedom. They don't understand that religion is far less dangerous to regular people than liberalism/socialism in most places ... we can do numbers of socialism vs religion, but that would kind of ruin this atheist party like a 500 lbs bomb at the center of a muslim anti-american rally.
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26-05-2017, 06:40 AM
RE: Is atheism prideful?
(26-05-2017 06:31 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(25-05-2017 08:34 PM)Alla Wrote:  I understand it very well. According to them I voted for Trump because I hate poor and sick.

Alla, can you expand on this? Do you literally mean that you personally HATE the poor and the sick?

if you don't understand this that might be an indicator of you not understanding.

I voted against hill billy chiton because I want all people to have a real chance at the american dream. I hate poor and sick people too, It breaks my heart that we have them in the USA.
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