Is atheism responsible for mass shootings?
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27-02-2013, 03:51 AM
RE: Is atheism responsible for mass shootings?
(27-02-2013 03:33 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(27-02-2013 02:30 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Please don't hate me for starting this thread. Its not an attack on the validity of atheism. I am, however, suspicious that recent mass shootings might be an artifact of a growing trend in this country toward atheistic beleifs [sic].


That's like saying, "I'm not racist" and then following it with the most obviously racist thing you possibly could...

Is atheism a possible factor? Yes, in a sea of other possibilities. I'd wager a guess that our gun-loving culture, high religiosity, terrible health care system (especially mental health), divisive political system, failing education systems (a symptom of a greater collapse in our overall infrastructure), and terrible wealth inequality; are all probably much greater factors in the current rise of mass shootings. Were the shooters atheist, or did they kill in the name of atheism? I haven't seen anything to that effect. And even if they had, would they be justified? Not at all, in the same way that you'd argue that if any of these shooters claimed to have done so for Jesus Christ, you'd be arguing that they aren't 'really' Christian...
It would be silly to assume there are no negatives with a rise in atheism. If it is not silly it is down right arrogant. Why do so many of you get butthurt if someone suggests that a rise in atheism might have produced some negative events. Its not like I came out and said "atheism is evil because....". You guys shouldn't be afraid to talk about reality. The reality is it is logically possible that a rise in atheism may produce negative artifacts.
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27-02-2013, 03:55 AM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2013 07:46 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Is atheism responsible for mass shootings?
(27-02-2013 03:38 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(27-02-2013 02:39 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  The theist psychopath is just as likely to believe that everyone they meet are demons or demon-controlled, and that ridding the world of them is God's will. Do you have any data on whether recent shooters were theist or atheist?

I have no data on any of the shooters. My suspicions are just that. I am in no way making a claim of fact that a rise in atheism is the cause for the recent mass shootings.
I think your claim about the theist pyschopath is outlandish. A theist pyschopath isn't necessarily going to think everyone they meet is a demon etc.
What I am saying is a theists pyschopath maybe restained from committing harm to others by a belief in going to hell. An atheist pyschopath has no such restraint.


Without any evidence for anything, it's all just so much dross. You have offered no evidence, just vague feelings, suspicions, and hunches. Great, good luck with that. What is your point again? Just pulling shit out of your ass for the sake of hearing your own voice? How is this anything but you being a troll? What right do you have to find what anyone else says 'outlandish' after what was in your original post? You both said something with no evidence to back it up, both statements can be dismissed just as easily. If Hafnof's post is 'outlandish', then so is yours...

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27-02-2013, 03:58 AM
RE: Is atheism responsible for mass shootings?
(27-02-2013 03:32 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  When it comes down to it, sure, maybe someone will refrain from killing mass numbers of people purely because of their religious beliefs. At the same time, many others will not refrain from killing mass numbers of people because of their religious beliefs. In fact, they may use those very beliefs to justify said killings. (No atheist ever flew planes into buildings in the name of an empty cosmos)
I liked your post overall. However I did find this comment somewhat comical(in a cute way)....it reveals your biased.
You're basically say, "Yeah, maybe one person will refrain from killing because of a belief in God" Its like that one guy is a token for the sake of argument.
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27-02-2013, 04:00 AM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2013 04:03 AM by Misanthropik.)
RE: Is atheism responsible for mass shootings?
(27-02-2013 03:58 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(27-02-2013 03:32 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  When it comes down to it, sure, maybe someone will refrain from killing mass numbers of people purely because of their religious beliefs. At the same time, many others will not refrain from killing mass numbers of people because of their religious beliefs. In fact, they may use those very beliefs to justify said killings. (No atheist ever flew planes into buildings in the name of an empty cosmos)
I liked your post overall. However I did find this comment somewhat comical(in a cute way)....it reveals your biased.
You're basically say, "Yeah, maybe one person will refrain from killing because of a belief in God" Its like that one guy is a token for the sake of argument.
I think you may be reading a little too deeply into a subtext that isn't actually there. So, to be safe, let's change it up a bit.

"When it comes down to it, sure, maybe someone will refrain from killing mass numbers of people purely because of their religious beliefs. At the same time, some others will not refrain from killing mass numbers of people because of their religious beliefs. In fact, they may use those very beliefs to justify said killings. (No atheist ever flew planes into buildings in the name of an empty cosmos)"

Rolleyes

Edit: And yes, "that one guy" was a token for the sake of argument. So was the other. That's what happens in hypotheticals. So, I'm not sure why there's even a need to bring it up.

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27-02-2013, 04:04 AM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2013 04:07 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Is atheism responsible for mass shootings?
(27-02-2013 03:51 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(27-02-2013 03:33 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  That's like saying, "I'm not racist" and then following it with the most obviously racist thing you possibly could...

Is atheism a possible factor? Yes, in a sea of other possibilities. I'd wager a guess that our gun-loving culture, high religiosity, terrible health care system (especially mental health), divisive political system, failing education systems (a symptom of a greater collapse in our overall infrastructure), and terrible wealth inequality; are all probably much greater factors in the current rise of mass shootings. Were the shooters atheist, or did they kill in the name of atheism? I haven't seen anything to that effect. And even if they had, would they be justified? Not at all, in the same way that you'd argue that if any of these shooters claimed to have done so for Jesus Christ, you'd be arguing that they aren't 'really' Christian...
It would be silly to assume there are no negatives with a rise in atheism. If it is not silly it is down right arrogant. Why do so many of you get butthurt if someone suggests that a rise in atheism might have produced some negative events. Its not like I came out and said "atheism is evil because....". You guys shouldn't be afraid to talk about reality. The reality is it is logically possible that a rise in atheism may produce negative artifacts.

Yeah, in the same way that the rise in water levels flooded New Orleans during Katrina. But do you put the blame on the water, or on the failed levies and FEMA/federal government response?

Atheism is on the rise, and secularism and skepticism along with it. These are all good values to have. If others react negatively to the rise or presence of atheism/secularism/skepticism, the real problem is those who react negatively. Is it the fault of African Americans for the Jim Crow laws, segregation, lynchings, police abuse, and other racial violence that stemmed from their emancipation and reconstruction efforts after the Civil War? Racism was the problem, exacerbated by those who had been discriminated against rising up and demanding equality (which they were entirely justified in doing). It challenged the status quo, and those with a vested interest in it reacted negatively.

Atheists are the most hated and feared minority in America at the moment, and the majority doesn't like us challenging the status quo. We can't be held responsible for their re-actions, only our own actions.

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27-02-2013, 04:04 AM
RE: Is atheism responsible for mass shootings?
(27-02-2013 03:55 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(27-02-2013 03:38 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I have no data on any of the shooters. My suspicions are just that. I am in no way making a claim of fact that a rise in atheism is the cause for the recent mass shootings.
I think your claim about the theist pyschopath is outlandish. A theist pyschopath isn't necessarily going to think everyone they meet is a demon etc.
What I am saying is a theists pyschopath maybe restained from committing harm to others by a belief in going to hell. An atheist pyschopath has no such restraint.


Without any evidence for anything, it's all just so much dross. You have offered no evidence, just vague feelings, suspicions, and hunches. Great, good luck with that. What is your point again? Just pulling shit out of your ass for the sake of hearing your own voice? How is this anything but you not being a troll? What right do you have to find what anyone else says 'outlandish' after what was in your original post? You both said something with no evidence to back it up, both statements can be dismissed just as easily. If Hafnof's post is 'outlandish', then so is yours...
Maybe so...but i was very upfront that my "outlandish" suspicion was exactly that....a suspicion. I'm not going to go to war with you to defend my admittedly(right from the start) unfounded suspicion. My point in starting this thread was to discuss possible negative consequences to a rise in atheism. Please don't be afraid to have this discussion.
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27-02-2013, 04:09 AM
RE: Is atheism responsible for mass shootings?
(27-02-2013 04:04 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(27-02-2013 03:51 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Yeah, in the same way that the rise in water levels flooded New Orleans during Katrina. But do you put the blame on the water, or on the failed levies and FEMA/federal government response?

Atheism is on the rise, and secularism and skepticism along with it. These are all good values to have. If others react negatively to the rise or presence of atheism/secularism/skepticism, the real problem is those who react negatively. Is it the fault of African Americans for the Jim Crow laws, segregation, lynchings, police abuse, and other racial violence that stemmed from their emancipation and reconstruction efforts after the Civil War? Racism was the problem, exacerbated by those who had been discriminated against rising up and demanding equality (which they were entirely justified in doing). It challenged the status quo, and those with a vested interest in it reacted negatively.
So your opinion is that a rise in atheism is awesome and there are no negatives whatsoever?
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27-02-2013, 04:16 AM
RE: Is atheism responsible for mass shootings?
(27-02-2013 04:09 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  So your opinion is that a rise in atheism is awesome and there are no negatives whatsoever?

Is it a good goal to want equal representation in government? To not be prevented from holding public office or being fired from our jobs for our (lack) of religious belief? How about demanding evidence for our beliefs? Or wanting us to be more rational and better educated?

These are all good ideals worth striving for. Now how do we go about pushing this agenda is up to debate, and thus so are the implications and repercussions of those actions. Are there negative side effects? Sure. But if a stupid religious nut firebombs an abortion clinic, the fault won't be with 'the rise of atheism'...

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27-02-2013, 04:34 AM
RE: Is atheism responsible for mass shootings?
(27-02-2013 04:04 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(27-02-2013 03:55 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Without any evidence for anything, it's all just so much dross. You have offered no evidence, just vague feelings, suspicions, and hunches. Great, good luck with that. What is your point again? Just pulling shit out of your ass for the sake of hearing your own voice? How is this anything but you not being a troll? What right do you have to find what anyone else says 'outlandish' after what was in your original post? You both said something with no evidence to back it up, both statements can be dismissed just as easily. If Hafnof's post is 'outlandish', then so is yours...
Maybe so...but i was very upfront that my "outlandish" suspicion was exactly that....a suspicion. I'm not going to go to war with you to defend my admittedly(right from the start) unfounded suspicion. My point in starting this thread was to discuss possible negative consequences to a rise in atheism. Please don't be afraid to have this discussion.

You're not discussing. You're throwing out baseless claims and saying, "What do you think of that?" Then acting shocked when we're offended.


Troll.

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27-02-2013, 04:36 AM
RE: Is atheism responsible for mass shootings?
(27-02-2013 04:09 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  So your opinion is that a rise in atheism is awesome and there are no negatives whatsoever?

No, those cockroaches must be crushed, once and for all. I suggest we reintroduce the inquisition and set it on atheists.

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