Is being an Atheist dogmatic?
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24-10-2016, 10:15 PM
Is being an Atheist dogmatic?
I am making an educated (I hope so) generalization here: many devoted religion people usually are biased or dogmatic in their beliefs' and believe that their religion is the only one that, and that everyone should practice theirs', for the most part, that is.

Now with being an Atheist, you use logic, science, and the laws of nature to prove that the ideas of many religions based off scriptures are faulty/ or insufficient to be real. Now my question: would this be considered dogmatic?

Note: when I say "their side", I am referring to an hypothetical example of debating with a religious person.

We are basically disproving their faith and religion with science and actuality, and we do not adhere to any of their side of the argument because they base it off scriptures with faulty logic.
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24-10-2016, 10:42 PM
RE: Is being an Atheist dogmatic?
(24-10-2016 10:15 PM)Shane951 Wrote:  I am making an educated (I hope so) generalization here: many devoted religion people usually are biased or dogmatic in their beliefs' and believe that their religion is the only one that, and that everyone should practice theirs', for the most part, that is.

Now with being an Atheist, you use logic, science, and the laws of nature to prove that the ideas of many religions based off scriptures are faulty/ or insufficient to be real. Now my question: would this be considered dogmatic?

No. To be dogmatic requires dogma, which Atheism doesn't have. Using science and logic to deconstruct bad ideas is exactly what science and logic are for.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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24-10-2016, 10:59 PM
RE: Is being an Atheist dogmatic?
An atheist who is unwilling/unable to change his mind in the face of better arguments and/or solid evidence is not a freethinker. There are many types of atheist out there, since it only means "godless". A Buddhist and a disciple of Ayn Rand are both technically atheists, as they have no gods in either of those pursuits, but their life-philosophies could not be more different. The same goes for Communists versus Secular Humanists-- our values are almost diametrically opposed to one another. So while one cannot be dogmatic about atheism itself (as has been explained already by WhiskeyD), one can be an atheist who holds other ideas to a level that could be considered dogmatic.

We're something of a freethinking community, however. Dogma is almost literally the opposite of what we do here at TTA.

Often, we are accused of being dogmatic when we stand up for the findings of science, such as evolution, abiogenesis, or astrophysics/cosmology, but it's not the same thing as a dogma. Things that have been conclusively demonstrated as factual, over hundreds of repeated tests by a variety of individuals and experimental methods, we may presume to be so well-confirmed as to be taken for granted as true... but that is still not a dogma.

For instance, I am an evolutionary biologist by education and career... I have literally thousands of hours spent studying this phenomenon and seeing its predictions manifested, firsthand, and know as much or more about evolution than 99.9% of the population out there.

And yet, if a good argument was presented tomorrow that conclusively showed me that all of that is wrong (or that it may be better-explained by another phenomenon/model/theory), then I will change my mind immediately and evolution will be gone.

But I see people making endless arguments against evolution which are terrible arguments, and when I tell them that no, I know what they're saying is not an argument against evolution like they think it is, they tell me I'm being dogmatic to my "faith" in evolution.

It's ridiculous, and misunderstands the entire basis of freethinking.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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25-10-2016, 12:45 AM
RE: Is being an Atheist dogmatic?
(24-10-2016 10:15 PM)Shane951 Wrote:  Now with being an Atheist, you use logic, science, and the laws of nature to prove that the ideas of many religions based off scriptures are faulty/ or insufficient to be real. Now my question: would this be considered dogmatic?

My goal is not to debunk any crazy religions but to match my picture of reality with the reality (outisde of my brain) itself. The tool to achieve this is science and my attitude is scepticism.

Thus my current position after sceptic evaluation of the availiable scientific evidence with regard to any religion presented to me is: atheism.

What is "dogma"?

Do you have any relevant (new, unknown to me) evidence to present to me regarding any random religion?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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25-10-2016, 01:24 AM
RE: Is being an Atheist dogmatic?
I don't use anything to disprove a god. I see no reason to do so. It is for those who believe who should show me evidence.

Some gods I like. Bacchus for example knew how to put on a good party. Smile

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25-10-2016, 01:29 AM
RE: Is being an Atheist dogmatic?
Let's be clear. All of us accept ideas from others which we cannot possibly fact-check completely ourselves. I don't know enough maths to validate the claim by Andrew Wiles to have proved Fermat's last theorem, but I believe that he has done so. Why? Am I being dogmatic about it?

There's two aspects to science, first there's the logic, experimentation, theorising and results side of it. Then there's peer review. Peer review is the means by which I can be sure that Andrew Wiles isn't just some crank with his own "proof" of a famous theorem, but a bona fide mathematician who actually cracked the problem.

Religion lacks a method to fact check their claims. That's the difference between dogma and rational belief.

ETA: And that's also why all these fake journals, "creation science" and all the rest are scum of the Earth and should die in a fire. Science is hard enough without having to worry that people are lying to you.

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25-10-2016, 05:34 AM
RE: Is being an Atheist dogmatic?
If requiring evidence and reason to hold beliefs is dogmatic then that's fine by me. Part of my dogma is that if you can show me a better basis for making decisions I will adopt it and if you can show me that my beliefs are not justified I will change them. I am dogmatic that I accept no other basis for belief.

Usually when I hear somebody saying that this is dogmatic it is linked to atheists having "faith" in science. It boils down to "you are no better than me" and tells me more about their insecurity about their beliefs than it tells me about my position.

When your dogma involves believing things that can't be demonstrated I don't worry very much about you telling me that I am too concerned with demonstrable reality.

Note: the 'you' is the general case, not any specific individual

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25-10-2016, 05:56 AM (This post was last modified: 25-10-2016 06:18 AM by Gloucester.)
RE: Is being an Atheist dogmatic?
Usual problem here for me, a word has both a meaning definition and a context, which is why badly written philosophy books for non-philosophers often have a phrase similar to, "In this context "dogma" means..." all the way through!

Definition:

Quote:dogma
ˈdɒɡmə/
noun
a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.

The only true atheist "authority" is consensus, choose you own consensus, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of them. Humanists fare better (relative value judgement of one who aspires to be a humanist) in that there is a fair commonly accepted list of tenets. But that has been a fairly naturally grown historical thing so far as I have seen and no-one says, "You have to believe, understand and practice all this to be a humanist".

For many religion the understanding bit is not mandatory.

Thus, I would certainly argue against "dogmatic atheism". I personally do not believe in the supernatural but would defend another's right to do so. Even to offer their belief to people old enough to make an educated decision about accepting or rejecting. I am anti any attempt to inculcate or force those beliefs on children.

If anyone shares that feeling I am 99% sure it is a personal choice rather than one forced on them. Not a dogma.

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25-10-2016, 06:05 AM
RE: Is being an Atheist dogmatic?
I consider myself a lapsed atheist..

That's like a regular one, without the dogma....


Big Grin

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25-10-2016, 06:17 AM
RE: Is being an Atheist dogmatic?
If it is, yer doing it wrong. Smartass

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