Poll: Is "belief" a choice
Yes. Belief is a choice.
No. Belief is not a choice.
I dont know
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Is "belief" a choice?...lets talk about that.
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10-03-2016, 04:59 PM
RE: Is "belief" a choice?...lets talk about that.
(10-03-2016 07:47 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Greeting everyone,
I just wanted to start off by saying that the purpose of this thread is not to try to influence your beliefs or lack of belief but have a conversation about belief in general, have a poll to get a general idea of what everyone else thinks, and discuss how many Christians take belief for granted. Many Christians emphasize free will and that we can use this free will to freely choose to believe or not to believe in God. But is “belief” really a choice and can we truly use this “free will” to choose to believe or not to believe? I can’t say that I agree. I don’t think anyone can simply choose to believe anything….they either believe or not believe something. Here is an example. If I told you that in order to be saved you had to believe the sky was pink and purple polka dotted. You may look me in the face and tell me “yes, I believe it”. Deep down, you truly want to believe it because you want to be saved. But can you really believe it? Let us look at what the bible says about “belief” and salvation.

John 14:12-14 ESV
“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

John 20:29 ESV
Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

John 3:16 ESV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Romans 10:9-10 ESV
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

So if belief is not a choice, the simple act of believing in Jesus is really not that simple. So how can a Christian truly convince and unbeliever to believe?


I stopped reading when you quoted the babble at me. I know it off by heart.

I knew it was BS when I was 4.

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10-03-2016, 05:21 PM
RE: Is "belief" a choice?...lets talk about that.
(10-03-2016 03:09 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(10-03-2016 01:47 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Well, when you say you can't, I think you mean that you can't just stop believing what you believe WITHOUT FURTHER EVIDENCE, but you obviously can eventually believe something else, otherwise almost none of us would be on this forum. I truly was convinced god existed at one point in my life, I don't anymore. Using your initial thought there, that's impossible. Clearly I don't believe god exists, but I used to believe that. This is why you have a choice. I was convinced my first girlfriend was being loyal to me, then I saw her sticking her tongue down another guy's throat. Guess what, I didn't believe she was loyal anymore.

I'm not saying you cant change your beliefs. But you cant just choose to do so, you have to be convinced. Hopefully I'm making sense. Lol.

I know what you are saying, but I think logic will win out here if we don't remain pedantic toward vocabulary. People can be presented with undeniably true info and still deny it, aka indoctrinated delusional theists. The mere fact that you are being convinced of something means you are choosing to believe it. What else is a belief if not being convinced of that new info? Have you ever believed in ANYTHING without being told what that thing was, regardless of critical thought or further evidence? It's impossible. The second you hear a detail you have to make a decision about what you've heard, at that point you have chosen to believe or disbelieve, even without further evidence.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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10-03-2016, 05:51 PM
RE: Is "belief" a choice?...lets talk about that.
Yes, it is a choice. Kids don't have a choice to hear about it and they don't have a choice to mimic it but by the time they get to be adults and learn of others ways and ideas they make a conscience choice to believe.

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10-03-2016, 06:34 PM
RE: Is "belief" a choice?...lets talk about that.
Fundamentalist Christianity is more about correct belief than correct action. As such it tends to attract people who simply want to be told what is correct. If that is what a person is looking for then "belief" is a simple function of finding an authority-figure with sufficient bona fides in the opinion of the seeker, and then aligning with that person or organization.

I maintain that this is not actual belief, so much as an abrogation of personal responsibility to hold beliefs for which one can give an account of. It is mostly an argument from authority -- and not even real authority but claimed authority.

To me, belief is pointless if it is not justifiable, substantiatable, and successfully arguable from observable facts.

I do not believe in the god I was raised to believe in because observable facts did not fit what one would expect to observe if such a god existed. I believe what I now DO believe because it comports with observable facts. The "belief" that I once had evaporated once I admitted that it had no basis. I therefore suggest that fundamentalists assert belief, but don't actually have belief; they have conformity.
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10-03-2016, 06:47 PM
RE: Is "belief" a choice?...lets talk about that.
(10-03-2016 01:02 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(10-03-2016 12:45 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Belief without evidence is pure opinion and guesswork, aka faith. So, in essence, you cannot truly believe anything without evidence. I stand by my answer.

If you came to me and said I have a purple insect in my fridge. At that very moment I can choose to believe you or not. I currently have no evidence to sway me. You COULD have one, how do I know? I am not so well-versed in the study of insects to know if one exists, so it's possible. I also have never seen a purple insect that I know of, so it could be you are full of shit. At that moment I have zero proof either way, so I have to choose to believe one or the other. It's choice, as they say in the Matrix.

You don't have to choose. But if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.

I might not believe in "Freewill" but I do believe in Rush. Heart


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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10-03-2016, 06:49 PM
RE: Is "belief" a choice?...lets talk about that.
(10-03-2016 06:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(10-03-2016 01:02 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You don't have to choose. But if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.

I might not believe in "Freewill" but I do believe in King Crimson. Heart

Fixed!

Tongue

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10-03-2016, 06:51 PM
RE: Is "belief" a choice?...lets talk about that.
(10-03-2016 06:49 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(10-03-2016 06:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I might not believe in "Freewill" but I do believe in King Crimson. Heart

Fixed!

Tongue

The line quoted from Girly was a line from the Rush song Freewill.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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10-03-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: Is "belief" a choice?...lets talk about that.
(10-03-2016 06:51 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(10-03-2016 06:49 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Fixed!

Tongue

The line quoted from Girly was a line from the Rush song Freewill.

I know. I'm a professional musician. Wink

I tend to see Rush as a result of the King Crimson LP Red. Released 1974. The year that ended the progressive rock era which began with Pet sounds and Sgt Pepper and In the court of the crimson king, and ended in 1974. After that everything was just a copy of what went before. Which is the reason Fripp ended KC. Prog had another short life from 1981 through 1984. It has since ceased to exist.

That's why I put in King Crimson. Smile

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10-03-2016, 07:24 PM
RE: Is "belief" a choice?...lets talk about that.
(10-03-2016 06:51 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(10-03-2016 06:49 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Fixed!

Tongue

The line quoted from Girly was a line from the Rush song Freewill.

And here I thought he was just quoting sartre... Drinking Beverage

well... nobody ever said that life was free.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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10-03-2016, 07:30 PM
RE: Is "belief" a choice?...lets talk about that.
(10-03-2016 07:00 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(10-03-2016 06:51 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  The line quoted from Girly was a line from the Rush song Freewill.

I know. I'm a professional musician. Wink

I tend to see Rush as a result of the King Crimson LP Red. Released 1974. The year that ended the progressive rock era which began with Pet sounds and Sgt Pepper and In the court of the crimson king, and ended in 1974. After that everything was just a copy of what went before. Which is the reason Fripp ended KC. Prog had another short life from 1981 through 1984. It has since ceased to exist.

That's why I put in King Crimson. Smile

I think the meds are making you delusional ... better not walk too close to any open churches.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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