Is belief in the unseen irrational?
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20-03-2016, 11:56 AM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2016 05:29 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(20-03-2016 08:20 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  What is the underlying difference in the approach you used to believe in either one?

I watched as a 800 pound piano fell on me as I prayed.

Fuck

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-03-2016, 11:57 AM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(20-03-2016 11:56 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-03-2016 08:20 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  What is the underlying difference in the approach you used to believe in either one?

I watched as a 800 pound piano fall on me as I prayed.

Fuck

Did you die?
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20-03-2016, 12:37 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(20-03-2016 11:57 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(20-03-2016 11:56 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I watched as a 800 pound piano fall on me as I prayed.

Fuck

Did you die?

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20-03-2016, 04:46 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(20-03-2016 06:13 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  If you put too many arguments forth I may overlook them in my replies and you may begin to think I am being evasive. Can we take them one at a time instead of this shotgun approach?

The words are on a page, easily accessible, and not going anywhere.

Deal with it.

(20-03-2016 06:13 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  You said "completely does not exist".

No, I didn't.

(20-03-2016 06:13 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  You said:
No one has any relevant credentials when it comes to establishing the existence of a god.
Is this another assumption?

No.

(20-03-2016 06:13 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  You said:
They have perceived a great number of things that they believe are supernatural presences, but this is not the same thing.

From google:
grav·i·ty/ˈɡravədē/
noun
the force that attracts a body toward the center of the earth, or toward any other physical body having mass. For most purposes Newton's laws of gravity apply, with minor modifications to take the general theory of relativity into account.
extreme or alarming importance; seriousness.

What specific empirical evidence have you found to prove the existence of gravity?

Drop an apple on your head.

(20-03-2016 06:13 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Is this same method of proving Gravity exists not applicable to God's existence?

No.

(20-03-2016 06:13 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Why do you assume my questions are assertions?

I don't. I simply answer them.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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20-03-2016, 05:06 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(20-03-2016 09:18 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  
(20-03-2016 07:32 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  You may not be aware of my beliefs my friend so I will tell you now.
Please look at my signature. Even if I saw the pyramids personally I still would not be convinced that it existed outside of our perception of it.
Proof is an illusion & yet I maintain the fact that I may be wrong.

I only seek the logic behind everyone's statements. If I find flaw I point it out. I could be wrong and I am open to correction.

Would you like to know why I seek the logic behind everyone's statements?

Concerning your statement about the way you proved the pyramids exist:
Your approach is admittedly subject to deceit although highly unlikely. Anyone that requires proof of the existence of the Pyramid has to contend with the possibility that it may be a deceit. Simply ignoring the possibility does not mean the possibility of it being a conspiracy does not exist. Science & logic do not eternally exclude possibilities when drawing conclusions, so why should a rational thinking person be different?

People that believe in God may be subject to deceit in the same way belief in the Pyramids are subject to deceit. I could be wrong.
I wish to compare the logic of how Atheists prove the Pyramids exist and how Theists prove God exists by the same assumptions and see which one is more believable.

There are many books/articles/websites/people which state that the Pyramids exists. Did you conclude it's existence based on that?
There are many books/articles/websites/people which state that the God exists. Did they conclude it's existence based on that?

logic goes hand in hand with reality. im not even sure how you personally determine what is logical if you dont trust your perception. i think they have a word for people like that and its called crazy. you should seek immediate professional help. because the thought of someone driving a car around who doesnt trust any of his senses is pretty scary. personally i think you have seen the matrix one too many times. i really dont understand why anyone believes in god, so i couldnt answer that for you. i already explained the pyramids. so are you saying that if you personally touch, lick, see, smell, and hear a say... dog, you still dont fully believe that it exists?

Even if I did personally observe it I would only be certain something exists and I interacted with it, for the most part consciously.

I believe there is a disconnect between cognitive rationalization and instinctive rationalization.
Driving would fall under instinctive rationalization I think.
Philosophical questions would fall under cognitive rationalization I think.

Do you think it was cognitive rationalization that has been influential in our survival as a species?
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20-03-2016, 05:57 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(20-03-2016 05:06 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Even if I did personally observe it I would only be certain something exists and I interacted with it, for the most part consciously.

I believe there is a disconnect between cognitive rationalization and instinctive rationalization.
Driving would fall under instinctive rationalization I think.
Philosophical questions would fall under cognitive rationalization I think.

Do you think it was cognitive rationalization that has been influential in our survival as a species?

Consider

Okay, I keep reading posts like this from yourself and I then cannot help but wonder,

"How do you actually function within life?"

No, really.

How do you possibly wake up. Use a shower and other house hold amenities. Survive eating a morning/waking meal.

Manage to actually navigate to the place in which you are gainfully employed.

Actually make it through a day interacting with other cognitive beings.

Manage to find your way back to your domicile.

Interact with those who's close personal space you share.

Again survive interacting with your bathing amenities and find your sleeping space?

Really, how do you do that with the mind set you constantly post about having?

You've asked many variations on pretty much the same things and people have given you pretty much the same answers and yet you keep coming back with pretty much the same questions.

I am boggled. Blink
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20-03-2016, 07:08 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(20-03-2016 05:06 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Driving would fall under instinctive rationalization I think.

Yeah... that's not good enough. Stop driving. You should be in a padded cell, if you actually believe the way that you do, and don't understand how to perceive reality.
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20-03-2016, 07:36 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2016 07:43 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(20-03-2016 05:57 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(20-03-2016 05:06 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Even if I did personally observe it I would only be certain something exists and I interacted with it, for the most part consciously.

I believe there is a disconnect between cognitive rationalization and instinctive rationalization.
Driving would fall under instinctive rationalization I think.
Philosophical questions would fall under cognitive rationalization I think.

Do you think it was cognitive rationalization that has been influential in our survival as a species?

Consider

Okay, I keep reading posts like this from yourself and I then cannot help but wonder,

"How do you actually function within life?"

No, really.

How do you possibly wake up. Use a shower and other house hold amenities. Survive eating a morning/waking meal.

Manage to actually navigate to the place in which you are gainfully employed.

Actually make it through a day interacting with other cognitive beings.

Manage to find your way back to your domicile.

Interact with those who's close personal space you share.

Again survive interacting with your bathing amenities and find your sleeping space?

Really, how do you do that with the mind set you constantly post about having?

You've asked many variations on pretty much the same things and people have given you pretty much the same answers and yet you keep coming back with pretty much the same questions.

I am boggled. Blink
I am not gainfully employed.
I am the employer.
I run a profitable construction company with over 25 workers.
We do masonry, carpentry, joinery, electricals, plumbing, roofing, tiling, ceiling, painting, landscaping & general property maintenance.
I am versed in all aspects of the above trades.
I am married 10 years now with 3 kids. The oldest being 14, the youngest 6 months old.
Some consider this successful.
Maybe I am a fluke of nature if my belief system shouldn't allow me to be successful.
I have always made decisions based on my gut feeling without giving it much thought. It's instinctive. Maybe this is to blame for my current status in life.

I don't think our cognitive rationalization is that important to our survival & our success. It's our instinctive rationalization based on our genetetics, evolution, personal experiences & epigenomes that control us I think.
I believe cognitive rationalization is just an after thought that helps our base instincts make decisions for us.

I have already said we are an instinctive species, even though we choose to believe otherwise.

I maintain the fact that I could be wrong.

P.S. I also give free construction advice and material lists in my spare time. In case any of you might needing some help.
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20-03-2016, 07:38 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(20-03-2016 07:08 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  
(20-03-2016 05:06 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Driving would fall under instinctive rationalization I think.

Yeah... that's not good enough. Stop driving. You should be in a padded cell, if you actually believe the way that you do, and don't understand how to perceive reality.

It's quite ppssible I was already a part of reality before I was able to perceive it.
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20-03-2016, 07:46 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(20-03-2016 07:36 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I am not gainfully employed.
I am the employer.
I run a profitable construction company with over 25 workers.
We do masonry, carpentry, joinery, electricals, plumbing, roofing, tiling, ceiling, painting, landscaping & general property maintenance.
I am versed in all aspects of the above trades.
I am married 10 years now with 3 kids. The oldest being 14, the youngest 6 months old.
Some consider this successful.
Maybe I am a fluke of nature if my belief system shouldn't allow me to be successful.
I have always made decisions based on my gut feeling without giving it much thought. It's instinctive. Maybe this is to blame for my current status in life.

I don't think our cognitive rationalization is that important to our survival & our success. It's our instinctive rationalization based on our genetetics, evolution, personal experiences & epigenomes that control us I think.
I believe cognitive rationalization is just an after thought that helps our base instincts make decisions for us.

I have already said we are an instinctive species, even though we choose to believe otherwise.

I maintain the fact that I could be wrong.

This does nothing to actually address or allay my questions or thoughts.

Employer >< Employee. Tomato >< TOmato

You make plans for the future of your employment which must be based on... nothing... Simply nothing.

Your stated position on life is... impossible.

You seem to have no way of knowing even if the Earth will continue to rotate on its axis. Or even what the Earth or the Sun are.

Unless... every rotation upon your return to consciousness (I have no idea how you manage to actually relinquish your grip on consciousness... Since you have not way of knowing if consciousness will ever return to you.) you literally look down... then walk outside and look up.

Really?

When others have called you a 'Solipsist' which you then go on to vehemently deny..... Only to return to posting such strange comments about not knowing things....

No

I am completely at a loss as to how your posting matches your reality.
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