Is belief in the unseen irrational?
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21-03-2016, 05:00 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(20-03-2016 11:32 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-03-2016 11:06 PM)Banjo Wrote:  What size shoe do you wear?

Don't ask him that. He's "homo cautious".
Remember.
In that case.
Whatever size Bucky wears, I'm about twice that.
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21-03-2016, 05:09 PM (This post was last modified: 21-03-2016 05:13 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(21-03-2016 07:11 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(20-03-2016 09:16 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I have never seen a definition of blue.

As I said. You have no understanding of even the most basic concepts in play.

Blue is the color that you perceive when observing light of a certain wavelength. All other colors are different wavelengths.

Quote:Can you prove to a color blind person blue exists?

Yes. Light has different wavelengths whether or not you can personally see it.

Quote:If you told him blue does not exist why should he believe you?
What makes your reality more privilege on the spectrum of reality than theirs?

Gibberish.

Learn to pose coherent questions before you go about demanding answers. As it is, you just sound like a stoned high-schooler who just watched The Matrix for the first time.
Really? You can prove to a blind person the color blue exists? Did you just make that up? I fail to see how you can do that.

Without knowing the state of the human eye the type of color it is seeing cannot be defined.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color
The color of an object depends on both the physics of the object in its environment and the characteristics of the perceiving eye and brain. Physically, objects can be said to have the color of the light leaving their surfaces, which normally depends on the spectrum of the incident illumination and the reflectance properties of the surface, as well as potentially on the angles of illumination and viewing. Some objects not only reflect light, but also transmit light or emit light themselves, which also contribute to the color. A viewer's perception of the object's color depends not only on the spectrum of the light leaving its surface, but also on a host of contextual cues, so that color differences between objects can be discerned mostly independent of the lighting spectrum, viewing angle, etc. This effect is known as color constancy.

What are you going to tell them?
Whenever object A has the following properties:
Physics of object = X + Eye/Brain = Y
Color will = Blue

What happens when the very same object is subject to a different Eye/Brain and the formula gives you the color red?

Which result is the True reality of object A?

Is the blind man in question a Theist? Only then I think your logic would make sense.

P.S. No offense to all the Theists reading this.
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21-03-2016, 05:21 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(21-03-2016 05:09 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(21-03-2016 07:11 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  As I said. You have no understanding of even the most basic concepts in play.

Blue is the color that you perceive when observing light of a certain wavelength. All other colors are different wavelengths.


Yes. Light has different wavelengths whether or not you can personally see it.


Gibberish.

Learn to pose coherent questions before you go about demanding answers. As it is, you just sound like a stoned high-schooler who just watched The Matrix for the first time.
Really? You can prove to a blind person the color blue exists? Did you just make that up? I fail to see how you can do that.

Without knowing the state of the human eye the type of color it is seeing cannot be defined.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color
The color of an object depends on both the physics of the object in its environment and the characteristics of the perceiving eye and brain. Physically, objects can be said to have the color of the light leaving their surfaces, which normally depends on the spectrum of the incident illumination and the reflectance properties of the surface, as well as potentially on the angles of illumination and viewing. Some objects not only reflect light, but also transmit light or emit light themselves, which also contribute to the color. A viewer's perception of the object's color depends not only on the spectrum of the light leaving its surface, but also on a host of contextual cues, so that color differences between objects can be discerned mostly independent of the lighting spectrum, viewing angle, etc. This effect is known as color constancy.

What are you going to tell them?
Whenever object A has the following properties:
Physics of object = X + Eye/Brain = Y
Color will = Blue

What happens when the very same object is subject to a different Eye/Brain and the formula gives you the color red?

Which result is the True reality of object A?

Is the blind man in question a Theist? Only then I think your logic would make sense.

P.S. No offense to all the Theists reading this.

It would appear you are reading something more out of that little tidbit you quoted more than others might. I'm not sure what about it is making you conclude the ideas you seem to conclude.

The way you're tinkering or bickering around this isn't consistent because its going from the idea of blue and property of what blue is to is x object blue or what color does it appear to you... which aren't the same concept based on others defined statements of what blue is. Your what if it "gives you" statements in these contexts is entirely strange and not connected to what is stated anywhere.

It's like you have a different definition of blue, despite saying you didn't have one. But you're arguing quite a bit for someone who claimed to not have heard of a definition of blue about the definition of blue.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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21-03-2016, 05:24 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(19-03-2016 09:02 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Is belief in the unseen irrational?

Hmm. I'll have to think about that. Return to this place in exactly seven and a half million years.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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21-03-2016, 05:30 PM (This post was last modified: 21-03-2016 06:05 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(21-03-2016 05:21 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(21-03-2016 05:09 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Really? You can prove to a blind person the color blue exists? Did you just make that up? I fail to see how you can do that.

Without knowing the state of the human eye the type of color it is seeing cannot be defined.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color
The color of an object depends on both the physics of the object in its environment and the characteristics of the perceiving eye and brain. Physically, objects can be said to have the color of the light leaving their surfaces, which normally depends on the spectrum of the incident illumination and the reflectance properties of the surface, as well as potentially on the angles of illumination and viewing. Some objects not only reflect light, but also transmit light or emit light themselves, which also contribute to the color. A viewer's perception of the object's color depends not only on the spectrum of the light leaving its surface, but also on a host of contextual cues, so that color differences between objects can be discerned mostly independent of the lighting spectrum, viewing angle, etc. This effect is known as color constancy.

What are you going to tell them?
Whenever object A has the following properties:
Physics of object = X + Eye/Brain = Y
Color will = Blue

What happens when the very same object is subject to a different Eye/Brain and the formula gives you the color red?

Which result is the True reality of object A?

Is the blind man in question a Theist? Only then I think your logic would make sense.

P.S. No offense to all the Theists reading this.

It would appear you are reading something more out of that little tidbit you quoted more than others might. I'm not sure what about it is making you conclude the ideas you seem to conclude.

The way you're tinkering or bickering around this isn't consistnet because its going from the idea of blue and property of what blue is to is x object blue or what color does it appear to you... which aren't the same concept based on others defined statements of what blue is.

It's like you have a different definition of blue, despite saying you didn't have one. But you're arguing quite a bit for someone who claimed to not have heard of a definition of blue about the definition of blue.
From Google:
Defintion:
means/mēnz/
noun
an action or system by which a result is brought about; a method.

Thank you Clydee. You refine my logic in almost every reply.

My apologies to whom it may concern.
What I should have said is I have never heard a definition of blue as far as objective reality is concerned.
I admit it was an unintentional fault, but it does not detract from the point I was making.

There are things we naturally believe exist (like the color blue) but it is only an illusion of subjective reality. It cannot be said to exist as far as objective reality is concerned.
Therefore certainty about anything is limited to perception.
I do not think that believing something is blue is irational.
What if I suddenly saw a never seen before color for the first time due to some evolutionary mishap?
What if I told you that this color does not match any color we currently know of.
Would you consider my belief irational simply because you can't see it?
How can the scientific method help me prove this new color exists to anyone else but myself?
Should I ignore the fact that I see it and join the masses in believing that it never existed?
Even if I proved my brain and eye was different it still wouldn't prove that this new color exists to anyone else but myself.

As far as objective reality is concerned there are an unlimited amount of possible colors for an unlimited amount of variations the human evolution can undergo. Each one is just as likely to exists as to not exist as far as subjectivity is concerned.

P.S. if you are a creationist you can ignore my last sentence. I was only using a more atheistic type logic here. I'm very open to different types of logic even if they appear flawed at first glance.

Oh & Clydee I probably never conclude anything. You know the Skepticism thingy i keep mentioning. Don't think I can prove it though.
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21-03-2016, 06:00 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(21-03-2016 05:00 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(20-03-2016 11:32 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Don't ask him that. He's "homo cautious".
Remember.
In that case.
Whatever size Bucky wears, I'm about twice that.

They don't make em that big. Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-03-2016, 06:01 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(21-03-2016 06:00 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-03-2016 05:00 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  In that case.
Whatever size Bucky wears, I'm about twice that.

They don't make em that big. Weeping
Tell me about it!
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21-03-2016, 06:04 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(21-03-2016 05:30 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  My apologies to whom it may concern.
What I should have said is I have never heard a definition of blue as far as objective reality is concerned.
I admit it was an unintentional fault, but it does not detract from the point I was making.

There are things we naturally believe exist (like the color blue) but it is only an illusion of subjective reality. It cannot be said to exist as far as objective reality is concerned.

Nope. It's measurable. The wavelengths are not "subjective".
It's a discrete range in the spectrum.

Quote:Therefore certainty about anything is limited to perception.


Jumpin' geewillikers, batman. That's the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization falacy.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-03-2016, 06:07 PM (This post was last modified: 21-03-2016 06:11 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(21-03-2016 06:04 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-03-2016 05:30 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  My apologies to whom it may concern.
What I should have said is I have never heard a definition of blue as far as objective reality is concerned.
I admit it was an unintentional fault, but it does not detract from the point I was making.

There are things we naturally believe exist (like the color blue) but it is only an illusion of subjective reality. It cannot be said to exist as far as objective reality is concerned.

Nope. It's measurable. The wavelengths are not "subjective".
It's a discrete range in the spectrum.

Quote:Therefore certainty about anything is limited to perception.


Jumpin' geewillikers, batman. That's the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization falacy.
Bucky the formula for color requires both objective and subjective data. Thus the result will always be subjective.
The wave lengths of said color will always remain constant if the state remains constant but the state of the brain/eye required to get the resulting definition of the color is subjective. Therefore the type of color it is can change regardless of the objective state of the color. It cannot be objectively defined.
Your rebuttal refuses to acknowledge the 2nd part of the formula.
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21-03-2016, 06:08 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
Are we still bickering about color?

#sigh
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