Is belief in the unseen irrational?
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26-03-2016, 12:02 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(26-03-2016 11:20 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 07:50 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That's what I am talking about when I say YOUR reasoning... I've done this 3 or so times to this same response and tried to say it clearer. I'm criticizing the presumptions you are making to indicate that this is what is thought and this is what is accepted, etc.

I don't know why you willingly assume things all the time. That is the idea thats contrasting to everything else you seem to indicate. You go on about your skeptical approach to not accept things then you make abundant assumptions... or you go around to desire labels. Then there is plenty of things you do and say that don't at all confirm to your claims.

Either way, a label is just a label. It's an idea agreed upon for it to mean anything to you otherwise if I say I have a tycublite it doesn't mean much of anything.So there is no thing such as an argument of popularity here... that's how words & labels work. You do like to quote the dictionary definitions a lot but those aren't arbiters of truth of a word.
Why should I accept anything? I don't really believe in anything. I am an extreme skeptic & no my uncertainty does not necessarily affect my life decisions because it could just as likely be instinctive decisions and not cognitive ones.
I desire to communicate. To do this I have to assume, but not necessarily believe what people say are true.
If a prerequisite for me to communicate is that I must believe what certain people say are true then certain people need not communicate with me.

It didn't choose to not believe in anything. I am simply stating that I don't believe in absolute truths.

If I don't know it's because I just don't know.

It would appear people are opposed to people that do not share their beliefs, but that is not a good reason for me to dishonestly change my stance.

You have to assume... really? I thought you didn't believe anything? Or that's just an assumption that you have to assume. So you assume you have to assume to assume you have to assume to assume. Okay.

I don't share the believes with tons of people here. Did I say you have to accept anything? There's no grounds to you having to accept or believe what other people say; though, It's also not a prerequisite to communicate for you to make nearly as many assumptions as you do. It's also pretty clearly a part of the appeared attitude that has gotten you more negative feedback and argumentative post chains that go on and on because of it. The evidence of rep responses and the pattern in pretty much all your threads would show that.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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26-03-2016, 03:00 PM (This post was last modified: 26-03-2016 04:30 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(26-03-2016 12:02 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 11:20 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Why should I accept anything? I don't really believe in anything. I am an extreme skeptic & no my uncertainty does not necessarily affect my life decisions because it could just as likely be instinctive decisions and not cognitive ones.
I desire to communicate. To do this I have to assume, but not necessarily believe what people say are true.
If a prerequisite for me to communicate is that I must believe what certain people say are true then certain people need not communicate with me.

It didn't choose to not believe in anything. I am simply stating that I don't believe in absolute truths.

If I don't know it's because I just don't know.

It would appear people are opposed to people that do not share their beliefs, but that is not a good reason for me to dishonestly change my stance.

You have to assume... really? I thought you didn't believe anything? Or that's just an assumption that you have to assume. So you assume you have to assume to assume you have to assume to assume. Okay.

I don't share the believes with tons of people here. Did I say you have to accept anything? There's no grounds to you having to accept or believe what other people say; though, It's also not a prerequisite to communicate for you to make nearly as many assumptions as you do. It's also pretty clearly a part of the appeared attitude that has gotten you more negative feedback and argumentative post chains that go on and on because of it. The evidence of rep responses and the pattern in pretty much all your threads would show that.
You are finally starting to get me. It's not an easy topic to explain, I will admit.
Everything I just wrote was based on the logic "if I desire to communicate I have to assume". There are two minds speaking here as far as I can tell. It seems weird & schizophrenic I know, but let me tell you why I came to this assumption.
I don't believe the logic I just stated is necessarily true, it was an assumption which was preceded by a desire to communicate.
I don't view desires as assumptions, it is quite possible desires come from subconscious rationalization whereas assumptions come from conscious rationalization.

It's possible "I" am the product of 2 minds.
I may have a conscious rationalization (possibly a soul) which views the entire physical world as seperate.
The 2nd mind is that of subconscious rationalization, whereby the human body I sometimes "assume" I am in control of is an avatar for communication from my conscious mind while still being able to function on it's own by using the subconscious rationalization.

If the evidence points in a certain direction is it not logical to assume it might be more than mere coincidence?
This may be a bit more personal but it's the same question I asked myself that I am about to ask you:
How many times have you assumed you lost control of yourself when in a fit of rage?
How many times have you desired to do something but you ended up doing the opposite without being able to cognitively explain why?
How many times have you done something you think you desired but cannot rationalize why you did it?

The list is tremendous of how many times there are instances where I am of two minds about a particular decision, and what is even more astonishing is I have found studies that back up this hypothesis.

Premise 1:
Conscious Awareness and decision making are two seperate brain processes
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24394375

Premise 2:
Conscious rationalization is a product of conscious awareness because you cannot consciously rationalize something you are not consciously aware of.


Premise 3:
If decision making precedes conscious awareness then it proves that conscious rationalization is not necessary for a decision to be made.
http://exploringthemind.com/the-mind/bra...you-decide

Premise 4:
There are proven instances where decision making precedes conscious awareness.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746176/

Premise 5:
If free will does exist then we should have some form of scientific evidence to prove our self aware conscious mind is in control.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurosci..._free_will

Premise 6:
There are no proven instances where conscious awareness precedes subconscious awareness

Premise 7:
Conscious awareness is not necessary for survival but subconscious awareness is.
http://www.hedweb.com/bgcharlton/awconlang.html

Conclusion: There is no evidence to believe conscious rationalization is in control of the decision making process?

P.S. I can think of no possible form of communication whereby an assumption is not made. Can you provide just one? If you can't then it would appear assumptions are a logical necessity for communication.
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26-03-2016, 04:04 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(26-03-2016 03:00 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  You are finally starting to get me.

We get it, you think you are deep.

You're not.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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26-03-2016, 04:07 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(26-03-2016 04:04 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 03:00 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  You are finally starting to get me.

We get it, you think you are deep.

You're not.
I don't really care if I'm deep or shallow. I'm just being me.
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26-03-2016, 04:10 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(26-03-2016 04:07 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 04:04 PM)Banjo Wrote:  We get it, you think you are deep.

You're not.
I don't really care if I'm deep or shallow. I'm just being me.

Uh huh.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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26-03-2016, 10:20 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(26-03-2016 04:07 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 04:04 PM)Banjo Wrote:  We get it, you think you are deep.

You're not.
I don't really care if I'm deep or shallow. I'm just being me.

That's a fairly shit plan when you happen to be a stupid cunt.Drinking Beverage

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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26-03-2016, 10:27 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(26-03-2016 10:20 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 04:07 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I don't really care if I'm deep or shallow. I'm just being me.

That's a fairly shit plan when you happen to be a stupid cunt.Drinking Beverage
And your point is?
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26-03-2016, 11:05 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(26-03-2016 10:27 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 10:20 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  That's a fairly shit plan when you happen to be a stupid cunt.Drinking Beverage
And your point is?

I'd hand hold you through the explanation but then you would try to redefine 6/8ths of the words, make up some new ones, and then ignore the rest of my posts and really who has the time for that.

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26-03-2016, 11:12 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(26-03-2016 10:27 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 10:20 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  ... you happen to be a stupid cunt.

And your point is?

I would've thought that the point would be more than obvious... well, to anybody with an IQ at least in the seventies. What part of this do you not understand?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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27-03-2016, 05:49 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(26-03-2016 11:12 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 10:27 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  And your point is?

I would've thought that the point would be more than obvious... well, to anybody with an IQ at least in the seventies. What part of this do you not understand?

Your point?
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