Is belief in the unseen irrational?
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27-03-2016, 05:52 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
It is 10.52 am and I feel like having a whiskey.

Thanks Mr Debates. Wink

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27-03-2016, 07:28 PM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
I'm getting serious Deepak Chopra vibes from this guy i just expect him to start saying something along the lines of

"Your desire self interacts with the doorway to photons"

or

"Our consciousness unfolds through great energy"

or even

"Matter meditates on the expansion of experiences"

or some such nonesense

pascal wager in a nut shell

god essentially wants a army of cowardly slaves who love it out of a selfish desire not to be punished and avoid said punishment by ideological luck
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28-03-2016, 06:52 AM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(26-03-2016 03:00 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 12:02 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You have to assume... really? I thought you didn't believe anything? Or that's just an assumption that you have to assume. So you assume you have to assume to assume you have to assume to assume. Okay.

I don't share the believes with tons of people here. Did I say you have to accept anything? There's no grounds to you having to accept or believe what other people say; though, It's also not a prerequisite to communicate for you to make nearly as many assumptions as you do. It's also pretty clearly a part of the appeared attitude that has gotten you more negative feedback and argumentative post chains that go on and on because of it. The evidence of rep responses and the pattern in pretty much all your threads would show that.
You are finally starting to get me. It's not an easy topic to explain, I will admit.
Everything I just wrote was based on the logic "if I desire to communicate I have to assume". There are two minds speaking here as far as I can tell. It seems weird & schizophrenic I know, but let me tell you why I came to this assumption.
I don't believe the logic I just stated is necessarily true, it was an assumption which was preceded by a desire to communicate.
I don't view desires as assumptions, it is quite possible desires come from subconscious rationalization whereas assumptions come from conscious rationalization.

It's possible "I" am the product of 2 minds.
I may have a conscious rationalization (possibly a soul) which views the entire physical world as seperate.
The 2nd mind is that of subconscious rationalization, whereby the human body I sometimes "assume" I am in control of is an avatar for communication from my conscious mind while still being able to function on it's own by using the subconscious rationalization.

If the evidence points in a certain direction is it not logical to assume it might be more than mere coincidence?
This may be a bit more personal but it's the same question I asked myself that I am about to ask you:
How many times have you assumed you lost control of yourself when in a fit of rage?
How many times have you desired to do something but you ended up doing the opposite without being able to cognitively explain why?
How many times have you done something you think you desired but cannot rationalize why you did it?

The list is tremendous of how many times there are instances where I am of two minds about a particular decision, and what is even more astonishing is I have found studies that back up this hypothesis.

Premise 1:
Conscious Awareness and decision making are two seperate brain processes
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24394375

Premise 2:
Conscious rationalization is a product of conscious awareness because you cannot consciously rationalize something you are not consciously aware of.


Premise 3:
If decision making precedes conscious awareness then it proves that conscious rationalization is not necessary for a decision to be made.
http://exploringthemind.com/the-mind/bra...you-decide

Premise 4:
There are proven instances where decision making precedes conscious awareness.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746176/

Premise 5:
If free will does exist then we should have some form of scientific evidence to prove our self aware conscious mind is in control.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurosci..._free_will

Premise 6:
There are no proven instances where conscious awareness precedes subconscious awareness

Premise 7:
Conscious awareness is not necessary for survival but subconscious awareness is.
http://www.hedweb.com/bgcharlton/awconlang.html

Conclusion: There is no evidence to believe conscious rationalization is in control of the decision making process?

P.S. I can think of no possible form of communication whereby an assumption is not made. Can you provide just one? If you can't then it would appear assumptions are a logical necessity for communication.
It's called dialogue. It's seems to be a well known form of communication among the speaking kind.

One can be open and unassuming in plenty of legitimate discussions while trying to speak upon possible ideas or asking questions.

Hell even a solopsist can have a conservation with someone and ask them things without even assuming the person even exists outside their mind.

I also have no understanding of what point you were trying to make in that conclusion so im not even gonna try to assume I get that.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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28-03-2016, 06:56 AM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(26-03-2016 04:07 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 04:04 PM)Banjo Wrote:  We get it, you think you are deep.

You're not.
I don't really care if I'm deep or shallow. I'm just being me.

Yeh, I get it, deep down, you are really shallow.

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28-03-2016, 11:28 AM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(28-03-2016 06:56 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 04:07 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I don't really care if I'm deep or shallow. I'm just being me.

Yeh, I get it, deep down, you are really shallow.
I always felt this way myself.
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28-03-2016, 11:31 AM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(28-03-2016 06:52 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(26-03-2016 03:00 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  You are finally starting to get me. It's not an easy topic to explain, I will admit.
Everything I just wrote was based on the logic "if I desire to communicate I have to assume". There are two minds speaking here as far as I can tell. It seems weird & schizophrenic I know, but let me tell you why I came to this assumption.
I don't believe the logic I just stated is necessarily true, it was an assumption which was preceded by a desire to communicate.
I don't view desires as assumptions, it is quite possible desires come from subconscious rationalization whereas assumptions come from conscious rationalization.

It's possible "I" am the product of 2 minds.
I may have a conscious rationalization (possibly a soul) which views the entire physical world as seperate.
The 2nd mind is that of subconscious rationalization, whereby the human body I sometimes "assume" I am in control of is an avatar for communication from my conscious mind while still being able to function on it's own by using the subconscious rationalization.

If the evidence points in a certain direction is it not logical to assume it might be more than mere coincidence?
This may be a bit more personal but it's the same question I asked myself that I am about to ask you:
How many times have you assumed you lost control of yourself when in a fit of rage?
How many times have you desired to do something but you ended up doing the opposite without being able to cognitively explain why?
How many times have you done something you think you desired but cannot rationalize why you did it?

The list is tremendous of how many times there are instances where I am of two minds about a particular decision, and what is even more astonishing is I have found studies that back up this hypothesis.

Premise 1:
Conscious Awareness and decision making are two seperate brain processes
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24394375

Premise 2:
Conscious rationalization is a product of conscious awareness because you cannot consciously rationalize something you are not consciously aware of.


Premise 3:
If decision making precedes conscious awareness then it proves that conscious rationalization is not necessary for a decision to be made.
http://exploringthemind.com/the-mind/bra...you-decide

Premise 4:
There are proven instances where decision making precedes conscious awareness.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746176/

Premise 5:
If free will does exist then we should have some form of scientific evidence to prove our self aware conscious mind is in control.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurosci..._free_will

Premise 6:
There are no proven instances where conscious awareness precedes subconscious awareness

Premise 7:
Conscious awareness is not necessary for survival but subconscious awareness is.
http://www.hedweb.com/bgcharlton/awconlang.html

Conclusion: There is no evidence to believe conscious rationalization is in control of the decision making process?

P.S. I can think of no possible form of communication whereby an assumption is not made. Can you provide just one? If you can't then it would appear assumptions are a logical necessity for communication.
It's called dialogue. It's seems to be a well known form of communication among the speaking kind.

One can be open and unassuming in plenty of legitimate discussions while trying to speak upon possible ideas or asking questions.

Hell even a solopsist can have a conservation with someone and ask them things without even assuming the person even exists outside their mind.

I also have no understanding of what point you were trying to make in that conclusion so im not even gonna try to assume I get that.
So you are not opposed to assumptions then? A simple yes or no would be fine.
Pssst.... come here.... a lil closer.... I'm not opposed to them either... just in case you don't want to sound like you agree with me.
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28-03-2016, 11:33 AM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(27-03-2016 05:52 PM)Banjo Wrote:  It is 10.52 am and I feel like having a whiskey.

Thanks Mr Debates. Wink

It sounds like there's a lot of people with acoustic drain because it sounds like he's having a mass debate.Drinking Beverage

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28-03-2016, 11:35 AM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(28-03-2016 11:28 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(28-03-2016 06:56 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  Yeh, I get it, deep down, you are really shallow.
I always felt this way myself.

What? You are always feeling yourself? Why am I not surprised.

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28-03-2016, 11:38 AM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(28-03-2016 11:35 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  
(28-03-2016 11:28 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I always felt this way myself.

What? You are always feeling yourself? Why am I not surprised.
Because you always watching? Perv
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28-03-2016, 11:47 AM
RE: Is belief in the unseen irrational?
(28-03-2016 11:38 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(28-03-2016 11:35 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  What? You are always feeling yourself? Why am I not surprised.
Because you always watching? Perv

What, boy, you want me to watch? Does that turn you on? Is that how you get your jollies off?

Secretly, is that want you want to do? Watch someone else? Are you a voyeur? Is that what you are doing here - trying to pick up someone so you can watch?

You really are sick aren't you?

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