Is capitalism with -some- socialist policies most preferable?
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03-05-2016, 12:15 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2016 08:29 AM by Gilgamesh.)
Is capitalism with -some- socialist policies most preferable?
('Some' being whatever you deem the 'right' amount) as opposed to, say, corporatism, socialism, or communism? Does anyone here believe that any socialist policies is too many?
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03-05-2016, 02:10 AM
RE: Is capitalism with -some- socialist policies most preferable?
Many countries in Europe are running policies that would be considered to be "socialist" in the US.
Said countries also have the highest standard of living, education, health and happiness.
I think there is a correlation.

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03-05-2016, 02:53 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2016 08:32 AM by Gilgamesh.)
RE: Is capitalism with -some- socialist policies most preferable?
Yeah. Socialised medicine, as one example of a socialist policy, is something I favor.

Slightly random: There was a poll conducted in the US, in 2008, which showed that 70% of republicans thought socialised medicine would be worse than the current system; the same % of democrats thought it would be an improvement. Source.
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03-05-2016, 06:05 AM
RE: Is capitalism with -some- socialist policies most preferable?
The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money. - M Thatcher


Want a shining example??

Take a look at Detroit.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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03-05-2016, 06:39 AM
RE: Is capitalism with -some- socialist policies most preferable?
Health and education are the big two that should be free.
That doesn't mean it has to be public owned, you can have private hospitals and private schools etc.. but there needs to be free healthcare and education for all (so governments would basically pay your bill for you and it doesn't matter if the hospital is public or private owned). And it needs to be at a decent level.

The other one is that the justice system needs to be 100% public owned, not private. Jails is what I'm talking about here. Lawyers are the exception, they can be private own. BUT there needs to be access for everyone to free lawyers. Also, lawyers shouldn't be aloud to advertise. Jails and places like jails need to be public owned so there is incentive on rehabilitation over just punishment. Rehabilitation is how you prevent and stop crime, not "just punishment".

Those three are the absolute minimum and the main three. IMO. I'm sure there's a bunch of little shit that I've forgotten. But other than that, every other industry should be private and none of it should be subsidized. If a farm isn't making money you shouldn't subsidize it. I think you can insure against bad weather or whatever which is fine, but just government subsides for the sake of propping up an industry is stupid.

The governments job is to regulate and make sure that corporations and companies are playing fairly not just in the market place but also towards society in general.
So that covers regulation against environmental impacts. Regulation against being able to fire anyone for no reason. Regulation against discrimination etc.. Regulation against monopolies and unfair trade practices.


Oh and of course welfare. You need efficient welfare.

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03-05-2016, 08:13 AM
Is capitalism with -some- socialist policies most preferable?
I'm fine with some publicly owned things such as roads, military, etc.

I don't like redistribution of wealth.
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03-05-2016, 09:02 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2016 09:16 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: Is capitalism with -some- socialist policies most preferable?
(03-05-2016 06:39 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Health and education are the big two that should be free.
That doesn't mean it has to be public owned, you can have private hospitals and private schools etc.. but there needs to be free healthcare and education for all (so governments would basically pay your bill for you and it doesn't matter if the hospital is public or private owned). And it needs to be at a decent level.

This is exactly what we have here in germany for example.
We have basic public healthcare, founded by the society by deducing some % of your total salary. Half of the money is deduced form your paycheck, half is added by your employer (yay, unions have achieved this for us by fighting for us for over 100y). The public healthcare is good, there is nothing to deisre. Additionally you are free to invest in additional private healthcare. For exmaple: public healthcare covers 50% of all cost of dental surgery. You can however add a private insurance that covers up to 90-100.
In most hospitals you will be accepted with public insurance, a lot of them are related to univesities to provide education for their young doctors, but we also have the "high society hollywood VIP hospitals" where cash is king. Its entirely your choice.

Education is similar: Schools and univesities are owned and run by each state (federal system!) separately. Evey kid has access to a public school with no fees involved. Books etc. are also provided by the state (you give back most of em later, for use to your sucessors).

For university you have to pay some fees not thousands but rather hundreds of € per semester (when i studied in the 90s it was 100DM=50€ or so Tongue ). You are free to go to whatever university you want, yet for the better ones you need certain grades form high school, since the competition amongst the students for those university is rather big.

P.S.: Here we keep expressions like "socialist(ic)" for the real socialist ideas and persons. We consdier our form of mutual support by common taxes a "social welfare state". I support this idea, since there (imho) is a distinction between being social and socialistic, and i am missing this distinction a lot everytime i watch/hear about this topic from the US of A.

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03-05-2016, 09:13 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2016 09:38 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: Is capitalism with -some- socialist policies most preferable?
double post, my browser crashed

ok, ill elaborate a bit about social and socialistic, now that i have an open post here.

Most germans consider it to be obvious that, as a social group, we need to support each other in a certain way ("we the german tribe" so to speak). So, although you have to pay ca. 20% of your salary for social securtiy (for example health care), we consider it to be a common effort to even out the social playing field. Its not about socialism = (forced) re-distribution of wealth, but about being a "social animal" and providing a basic mutual support within that society. Most of us have no problem paying off free education of other peoples kids by your own taxes. Its a closed loop, not an open loop (non engineers please use google :-) ). You pay for free education of some piss poor germans clever kid, he has access to better education, gets a well paid job, pays his tax, and in return my kids still have access to free education too, although my company had to close and fire me. This is of course a simplification, but the basic principle applies.
I dont see the fearmongering threat of "state will take all my money" or "poor and lazy basterds will force me to give them my money". This is (imho) classic fearmongering of the ruling classes, to keep the plebs (particularly) in control and give them the illusion they can live the "american dream". It is classic "opium for the masses". There will always be friction of course and profiteers. This applies to any system you want to use. It cant be avoided.

Socialism is however a different animal. We have quite a few socialists here. Its quite surprising that this movement has the most support in eastern germany where....well you know the story. I think psychologists are having a field day with this since the late 90s. Apart form eastern germany, its not widely accepted (see: election results) as a real option, and here you can see that most germans indeed know the difference between being "social" and "socialistic". The program of our socialist party is so ridiculous and obviously would lead to a result well known from eastern germanies recent past, that it wont have any chance until we end up in a situaion like the late 20s or early 30s again.
Minimum wage (even without having a job at all!!!!!), making all banks state property, tax for the rich (just for being wealthy!), free access to ANYTHING imaginable....thats a naive and childish illusion they want to sell, and i dont know if many of those politicians even believe what they preach.

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03-05-2016, 09:19 AM
RE: Is capitalism with -some- socialist policies most preferable?
Understanding why we need umpires doesn't make me anti-baseball.
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03-05-2016, 11:35 AM
RE: Is capitalism with -some- socialist policies most preferable?
(03-05-2016 12:15 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  ('Some' being whatever you deem the 'right' amount) as opposed to, say, corporatism, socialism, or communism? Does anyone here believe that any socialist policies is too many?

My short answer is: some things run more efficiently when they're centralized and some don't. Centralize what makes sense.

I don't really see the point of centralizing things like grocery stores, factories, or restaurants. I do see a point in centralizing things like public roads, health care, and the military.
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