Is cheese the most ancient non-foraged/non-hunted food?
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22-05-2015, 11:05 AM
RE: Is cheese the most ancient non-foraged/non-hunted food?
(22-05-2015 11:02 AM)pablo Wrote:  
(22-05-2015 10:43 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I would actually think bread, or a type of bread is older. Cheese making requires more effort, animal husbandry -- which probably closely followed.

Bread/cracker-like bread, only requires a few things. Let it sit and wild yeast will spontaneously begin to cause it to rise.

I think the first cheeses were almost certainly made accidentally. Poor milk storage practices and whatnot.

It was likely stored in a animal bladder...so yeah...

Still it required animal domestication/husbandry.

So, my anthropological opinion is that bread wins by at least a few thousand years.


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22-05-2015, 11:07 AM
RE: Is cheese the most ancient non-foraged/non-hunted food?
Milk stored in a goat stomach (common water carrying technology of the time) would have certainly done the trick.

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22-05-2015, 11:10 AM
RE: Is cheese the most ancient non-foraged/non-hunted food?
Does one hunt or forage for milk?

Consider

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22-05-2015, 11:16 AM
RE: Is cheese the most ancient non-foraged/non-hunted food?
I've read elsewhere that cheese was developed by tribesmen crossing the Sahara carrying skins of milk with them. Don't know when that allegedly occurred, though.
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22-05-2015, 11:26 AM
RE: Is cheese the most ancient non-foraged/non-hunted food?
I would agree with Moms except, I was counting gathering wild seed & fruit as foraging.

That said, I think people moved a lot at first and there really isn't a 'moment in time' that can be pinned down by a specific activity to show domestication or farming type activity.

Heards could move with nomadic peoples and I'm certain they gathered produce along the way, following the growth of seasonal crops. It's probably what gave some the notion of staying put.

So yea, probably a ground meal mixed with water got close to the fire and ... cracker and eventually, bread.

She said, about to bite into a yummy croissant. Shy

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22-05-2015, 11:28 AM
RE: Is cheese the most ancient non-foraged/non-hunted food?
I'll bet the guy who discovered cheese musta been a real wild mutha.....

"I think I'll go over and tug on that goat's tits, and put whatever comes out in a sheep's stomach and store it in this hole in the ground for a couple weeks.... The, I'll eat whatever comes out"....

Holy crap....

It's amazing humanity survived.....

.......................................

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22-05-2015, 11:33 AM
RE: Is cheese the most ancient non-foraged/non-hunted food?
(22-05-2015 11:28 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I'll bet the guy who discovered cheese musta been a real wild mutha.....

"I think I'll go over and tug on that goat's tits, and put whatever comes out in a sheep's stomach and store it in this hole in the ground for a couple weeks.... The, I'll eat whatever comes out"....

Holy crap....

It's amazing humanity survived.....

I've always thought he had to be one hungry sonofabitch.
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22-05-2015, 11:35 AM
RE: Is cheese the most ancient non-foraged/non-hunted food?
(22-05-2015 11:16 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I've read elsewhere that cheese was developed by tribesmen crossing the Sahara carrying skins of milk with them. Don't know when that allegedly occurred, though.

Consider

Around midday, I think.

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22-05-2015, 11:40 AM
RE: Is cheese the most ancient non-foraged/non-hunted food?
(22-05-2015 11:28 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I'll bet the guy who discovered cheese musta been a real wild mutha.....

"I think I'll go over and tug on that goat's tits, and put whatever comes out in a sheep's stomach and store it in this hole in the ground for a couple weeks.... The, I'll eat whatever comes out"....

Holy crap....

It's amazing humanity survived.....

I'm sure our developing brains were working overtime keeping up with observing the results of our bungling through time. We had a lot of ground to cover ... we were (are) just coming out of our wildness.

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22-05-2015, 12:12 PM
RE: Is cheese the most ancient non-foraged/non-hunted food?
(22-05-2015 11:26 AM)kim Wrote:  I would agree with Moms except, I was counting gathering wild seed & fruit as foraging.

Hunting/gathering predates the discovery of fire, which really allowed us to evolve. The first sign that we could probably control animals was the use of dogs. But still the idea or animal husbandry came much later.

Quote:That said, I think people moved a lot at first and there really isn't a 'moment in time' that can be pinned down by a specific activity to show domestication or farming type activity.

Heards could move with nomadic peoples and I'm certain they gathered produce along the way, following the growth of seasonal crops. It's probably what gave some the notion of staying put.

So yea, probably a ground meal mixed with water got close to the fire and ... cracker and eventually, bread.

She said, about to bite into a yummy croissant. Shy

It depends on what part of the world you're talking about. I think what really contributed more to people staying put, resources and weather which probably led to construction of structures that could provide shelter and not fall apart.

People did tend to stay in one place more when they began cultivating crops, they would also carry seeds with them, so they I would assume that they somewhat planned on staying in a particular spot long enough to harvest and then maybe move on elsewhere for the winter. What's interesting to me, people who lived on smaller "islands" (by island, i dont necessarily mean surrounded by water) seemed to have developed the idea of cultivation and some animal husbandry before other areas of the world. It makes sense, but still interesting. They also had often better construction...discovered weaving/rope...

I seem to recall in my anthropology or maybe one of the sociology classes in college. They seemed to think many native peoples in north America would often move around but return to the same areas in different times of the year. While nomadic people in other parts of the world didn't seem to do that or we can't find evidence that they did.

Yet it appears in other areas, people remained in the same geographic location for many years -- until they were forced off by someone else or the resources dwindled, requiring them to relocate.

So smoked gouda, yogurt and now a croissant? I'm jealous. Smile


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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