Is childbirth a reason to believe in god?
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10-12-2015, 11:17 AM
RE: Is childbirth a reason to believe in god?
(09-12-2015 11:45 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Babies are the craziest possible reason to believe in God.

We have mammalian reproduction apparatus. Worse, because we became bipedal just before our brains (and thus our heads) started getting bigger, our hips "rotated" inward, compared to our ancestors (and our cousins, the chimps), meaning the birth canal got narrower. We thus developed neoteny (born somewhat premature) under strong evolutionary pressure, and have a high likelihood of problems during childbirth, including death of the mother, trying to push a watermelon out of a garden hose.

If God was real, and made that on purpose as some kind of "miracle", he'd be an asshole.

No, see, he didn't do it as some kind of miracle -- it was a punishment, because Eve ate some fruit that he told her not to eat. And why punish just Eve when you can punish every woman after her as well?

Hmmm... I guess that makes him even more of an asshole.
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10-12-2015, 11:22 AM
RE: Is childbirth a reason to believe in god?
Nearly all babies (of the same race anyway) look VERY similar at birth and through the following weeks. My sons were born 4.5 years apart and in pictures of the first few weeks of each of their lives I sometimes can only tell which one I'm looking at based on how I look in the picture, lol. This isn't a miracle. Now the baby is almost 7 months and looks much different than his brother looked at the same age.

Does this believer allege that "god" gave her the same baby a second time? If so, you gotta wonder why he'd take it away the first time. Seems pretty fucking sick and twisted no?
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10-12-2015, 03:02 PM
RE: Is childbirth a reason to believe in god?
(10-12-2015 11:22 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Does this believer allege that "god" gave her the same baby a second time? If so, you gotta wonder why he'd take it away the first time. Seems pretty fucking sick and twisted no?

no, she does not allege that god gave her the same baby a second time. she just has a stronghold on the idea that the similarities of the two children visually, were otherworldly and a sign from god. It's a good question though, however, in this instance, there is no way to tell if the second child still resembles the first, since the first died within 2 months of birth and the second child is no 5 years old.
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13-12-2015, 06:17 AM
RE: Is childbirth a reason to believe in god?
childbirth is reason to believe your parents didn't use contraceptives that night Drinking Beverage
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13-12-2015, 07:03 PM
RE: Is childbirth a reason to believe in god?
Just sounds like the juvenile, emotional roller coaster of a Christian who had some tough times and some good times.

As for the child looking similar; big whoop. My brother and I are nearly 3 years apart and looked damn near like twins in the early stages of our lives. Babies all look a like to me except for skin and hair color.
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13-12-2015, 07:15 PM
RE: Is childbirth a reason to believe in god?
(10-12-2015 11:22 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Does this believer allege that "god" gave her the same baby a second time? If so, you gotta wonder why he'd take it away the first time. Seems pretty fucking sick and twisted no?

My daughter's mother-in-law lives with them and has for about a year. She is pretty naive about a lot of things and is quite fond of God and Jesus. She is nice enough but a challenge to interact with because the bubble she lives in is so small.

Anyway, my daughter was telling me that her MIL kept saying something in conversation that she was having trouble figuring out. She finally had to ask for some clarification...after which she drove over here and pounded her head on the table for a while.

Seems that MIL would say, "The first time I was pregnant with Anthony..." My daughter thought she was was hearing it wrong or was just missing something. Turns out that in between having my SIL and his little brother the MIL had a miscarriage...when she became pregnant again she considered it being pregnant again with the same baby. Blink Therefore the stories that began with - The first time I was pregnant with Anthony...

All I can think is WOW! That was a new one on me.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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13-12-2015, 07:25 PM
RE: Is childbirth a reason to believe in god?
(13-12-2015 07:15 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(10-12-2015 11:22 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Does this believer allege that "god" gave her the same baby a second time? If so, you gotta wonder why he'd take it away the first time. Seems pretty fucking sick and twisted no?

My daughter's mother-in-law lives with them and has for about a year. She is pretty naive about a lot of things and is quite fond of God and Jesus. She is nice enough but a challenge to interact with because the bubble she lives in is so small.

Anyway, my daughter was telling me that her MIL kept saying something in conversation that she was having trouble figuring out. She finally had to ask for some clarification...after which she drove over here and pounded her head on the table for a while.

Seems that MIL would say, "The first time I was pregnant with Anthony..." My daughter thought she was was hearing it wrong or was just missing something. Turns out that in between having my SIL and his little brother the MIL had a miscarriage...when she became pregnant again she considered it being pregnant again with the same baby. Blink Therefore the stories that began with - The first time I was pregnant with Anthony...

All I can think is WOW! That was a new one on me.

Wow. Just.... wow.
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13-12-2015, 07:29 PM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2015 07:34 PM by Heatheness.)
RE: Is childbirth a reason to believe in god?
(09-12-2015 04:33 PM)lostinthought Wrote:  I need help getting my thoughts together for a conversation i'm going to have to have in a few days.

X is a friend of mine, a pastor, and fun to banter with. I admire his tenacity in that he never gives up trying to convert me. X recently introduced me to Kim, a lady that graduated out of the local faith based homeless shelter where he volunteers at. He wanted me to hear her story, her miracle story. I love listening to christians tell their stories, most especially "the moment" part. That moment in every christians story where they "just knew" it was god, that there is no other explanation for what happened, and thats when they became christians.

My problem with Kim's story, well, one of the problems, is the fact that she became a christian after she had a child. Three years prior, she'd had a child, and when it was just a few months old, it had died. At this point, Kim became an atheist, blaming god for the death, even though she was a believer before the child was born. Five years later, she became pregnant again, and had a child, and the child looked identical to the first child that had died. It was upon this recognition that she became a christian once again.

Can you help me form my thoughts on why childbirth is no reason to believe in god? I've searched and searched for articles dedicated to this topic, but I keep coming up empty handed.

Thanks.


A couple of things: Are you having this convo with the pastor or the woman.

If the pastor, her personal experience has no baring on whether to believe in god, it's anecdotal not evidentiary. Let the pastor know that when and if there's irrefutable verifiable and testable evidence of supernatural beings you'll reconsider.

If it's the mother, don't, not really your place to tell her what to believe or not. I am atheist through and through but I also think people should be allowed whatever gets them through the night as long as it doesn't affect others legally, politically or ethically. It's her business what she chooses. BTW, she was never atheist, she was angry or disappointed but not god-thought free.

I don't toy with people, religious or otherwise so I would be concerned about an agenda... his and yours.

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14-12-2015, 09:17 AM
RE: Is childbirth a reason to believe in god?
(09-12-2015 06:02 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  Have they even seen what a vagina looks like?

More importantly, have they seen what a vagina looks like directly after childbirth? That alone should prove there is no god.

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16-12-2015, 08:24 PM
RE: Is childbirth a reason to believe in god?
(09-12-2015 04:33 PM)lostinthought Wrote:  I need help getting my thoughts together for a conversation i'm going to have to have in a few days.

X is a friend of mine, a pastor, and fun to banter with. I admire his tenacity in that he never gives up trying to convert me. X recently introduced me to Kim, a lady that graduated out of the local faith based homeless shelter where he volunteers at. He wanted me to hear her story, her miracle story. I love listening to christians tell their stories, most especially "the moment" part. That moment in every christians story where they "just knew" it was god, that there is no other explanation for what happened, and thats when they became christians.

My problem with Kim's story, well, one of the problems, is the fact that she became a christian after she had a child. Three years prior, she'd had a child, and when it was just a few months old, it had died. At this point, Kim became an atheist, blaming god for the death, even though she was a believer before the child was born. Five years later, she became pregnant again, and had a child, and the child looked identical to the first child that had died. It was upon this recognition that she became a christian once again.

Can you help me form my thoughts on why childbirth is no reason to believe in god? I've searched and searched for articles dedicated to this topic, but I keep coming up empty handed.

Thanks.

Be Very Gentle

Kim has suffered indescribable loss amongst profound joy while in the midst of two hormonal rollercoster rides. Her loss and rediscovery of her faith are probably some of the healthier coping mechanisms you might observe in tragedy of this scope. I have seen others fair far worse.

Her faith is obviously fragile and she is deeply emotionally invested in it. Avoid challenging her beliefs if at all humanly possible. At best you will earn her scorn and you run the risk of causing serious harm.

And your pastor friend has absolutely no right testing the faith of somebody who has suffered this deeply. On the behalf of this atheist, kindly ask him how he thinks a professional review committee might deal with a psychiatrist who played with an emotionally traumatized victim in this manner. At best he has demonstrated that his moral compass points straight toward "Convenient" and that he has half the wits of boiled lettuce.

And he had best spend the rest of his life begging this woman's forgiveness and praying that his god shows him more mercy than I would have.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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