Is free will a choice to be human?
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12-06-2016, 07:44 PM
RE: Is free will a choice to be human?
(12-06-2016 07:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Science has proven human decisions are made before we are conscious of them. Doesn't fare too well for free will I guess.

If you're referring to the study that I think you are I don't find it compelling.

Science has shown that relatively trivial decisions (left button/right button) can be predicted well before we are conscious of having made the choice. Hardly surprising given the complexity of our mind and the subconscious. We can predict the final result in advance of the individual becoming conscious of it but does that mean that no conscious decision was made prior to that?

I'd love to see that experiment re-run in the following format:

Stage 1: Same as the original. Establish a good baseline.

Stage 2: Take the subject up to the booth, explain the experiment to them and let them watch the results of another subject. Then let them retake the test. Does knowing how they are being monitored change their predictability? My guess would be yes. My guess would be that the brain scans also get a lot more interesting.

Stage 3: Give them a monitor showing their real-time brain scan. Given the 8 second predictive lead time a person ought to be able to choose "left button" when the scan indicates that they've decided "right button" and vice versa. And where does that leave us? And what would the scan show when you override the prior decision?

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12-06-2016, 07:54 PM
RE: Is free will a choice to be human?
(12-06-2016 07:44 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(12-06-2016 07:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Science has proven human decisions are made before we are conscious of them. Doesn't fare too well for free will I guess.

If you're referring to the study that I think you are I don't find it compelling.

Science has shown that relatively trivial decisions (left button/right button) can be predicted well before we are conscious of having made the choice. Hardly surprising given the complexity of our mind and the subconscious. We can predict the final result in advance of the individual becoming conscious of it but does that mean that no conscious decision was made prior to that?

I'd love to see that experiment re-run in the following format:

Stage 1: Same as the original. Establish a good baseline.

Stage 2: Take the subject up to the booth, explain the experiment to them and let them watch the results of another subject. Then let them retake the test. Does knowing how they are being monitored change their predictability? My guess would be yes. My guess would be that the brain scans also get a lot more interesting.

Stage 3: Give them a monitor showing their real-time brain scan. Given the 8 second predictive lead time a person ought to be able to choose "left button" when the scan indicates that they've decided "right button" and vice versa. And where does that leave us? And what would the scan show when you override the prior decision?

I suspect David Eagleman (Texas) has done that.

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12-06-2016, 08:05 PM
RE: Is free will a choice to be human?
(11-06-2016 09:53 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  What is Free will?

What set of empirical data would you need in order to objectively measure the difference between a thing that has free will and a thing that doesn't?

My dog had free will and her using said free will and deciding to keep chasing chickens and killing them meant that the local Haitian whose chickens she kept killing decided to use his free will and his machete to end her free will way of life. So tell me about free will!
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12-06-2016, 09:51 PM
RE: Is free will a choice to be human?
Free will is simply a choice between doing good or evil.
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12-06-2016, 09:56 PM
RE: Is free will a choice to be human?
(12-06-2016 09:51 PM)carusmm Wrote:  Free will is simply a choice between doing good or evil.

Perceptual reality constructs spontaneous possibilities.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
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12-06-2016, 09:58 PM
RE: Is free will a choice to be human?
(12-06-2016 09:51 PM)carusmm Wrote:  Free will is simply a choice between doing good or evil.


Oh, really?
Do elaborate.







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12-06-2016, 10:00 PM
RE: Is free will a choice to be human?
(12-06-2016 09:58 PM)kim Wrote:  
(12-06-2016 09:51 PM)carusmm Wrote:  Free will is simply a choice between doing good or evil.


Oh, really?
Do elaborate.





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He only 'elaborates' in single sentence drivel that is generously splatted all over the forum. So, yeah, good luck with that.

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12-06-2016, 10:13 PM
RE: Is free will a choice to be human?
(12-06-2016 09:56 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(12-06-2016 09:51 PM)carusmm Wrote:  Free will is simply a choice between doing good or evil.

Perceptual reality constructs spontaneous possibilities.

Laugh out load

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12-06-2016, 10:57 PM
RE: Is free will a choice to be human?
[Image: th?id=OIP.Mdd5f9ff811464669e5542473b586e...p;pid=15.1]

Every time I think of free will I think of this. It's totally against my will too. I'm unable to control it.
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12-06-2016, 11:43 PM
RE: Is free will a choice to be human?
(12-06-2016 07:44 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(12-06-2016 07:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Science has proven human decisions are made before we are conscious of them. Doesn't fare too well for free will I guess.

If you're referring to the study that I think you are I don't find it compelling.

Science has shown that relatively trivial decisions (left button/right button) can be predicted well before we are conscious of having made the choice. Hardly surprising given the complexity of our mind and the subconscious. We can predict the final result in advance of the individual becoming conscious of it but does that mean that no conscious decision was made prior to that?

I'd love to see that experiment re-run in the following format:

Stage 1: Same as the original. Establish a good baseline.

Stage 2: Take the subject up to the booth, explain the experiment to them and let them watch the results of another subject. Then let them retake the test. Does knowing how they are being monitored change their predictability? My guess would be yes. My guess would be that the brain scans also get a lot more interesting.

Stage 3: Give them a monitor showing their real-time brain scan. Given the 8 second predictive lead time a person ought to be able to choose "left button" when the scan indicates that they've decided "right button" and vice versa. And where does that leave us? And what would the scan show when you override the prior decision?

Okay, I might be well off the mark here but I have to wonder about video games. Button A vs button B, decision made in a split second. Is that just reaction rather than decision...is there a difference?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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