Is having a government scientific?
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29-05-2014, 08:56 AM
RE: Is having a government scientific?
(29-05-2014 02:35 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(28-05-2014 10:58 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  That's because instead of trying to comprehend anything, you instead reflectively reject anything that even appears to contradict with your assumed preconceptions. Well, if you can't be bothered and would rather make poor excuses, then fuck you too. Why should I both looking at any of your shit?
Frankly, TTA is so addictive and I should rather study for exams and do homework. I keep myself at least from watching videos that I know are false, because things I have learned for years tell me they're fase.

I did you the favor of highlighting your bullshit.

Fuck, if only we could all be perfectly psychic Libertarians like Luminon, the world would be a better place... Facepalm

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29-05-2014, 09:34 AM
RE: Is having a government scientific?
(29-05-2014 08:56 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(29-05-2014 02:35 AM)Luminon Wrote:  Frankly, TTA is so addictive and I should rather study for exams and do homework. I keep myself at least from watching videos that I know are false, because things I have learned for years tell me they're fase.

I did you the favor of highlighting your bullshit.

Fuck, if only we could all be perfectly psychic Libertarians like Luminon, the world would be a better place... Facepalm

It's easy when you and you alone know the "TRUTH" anything said by anyone else is not the "TRUTH" and can therefore be ignored.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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29-05-2014, 12:18 PM
RE: Is having a government scientific?
(29-05-2014 08:56 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Fuck, if only we could all be perfectly psychic Libertarians like Luminon, the world would be a better place... Facepalm
Psychism is useful, but it also really helps to study economy for several years (not counting high school) and to do two state exams out of it. I have my Bachelor's from private college and a diploma from a community college, both involved economy and law as the main subjects.
I know the official opinion on economy perfectly well and it still doesn't make sense. State doesn't make sense economically, but state-funded schools must portray economy in such a way that makes the state look good. That's not economy, that's sociology.

There is so much fog and technical details that people don't see the principle.

When a private sector company produces goods and services, they increase the value of money, because there are more alternatives to spend your money on.

When a public sector company or office provides goods or services, they are always pre-paid. The money have been already taken from you and from the economy and these people will get paid no matter what, no matter what you choose. Someone else already decided how do you spend money.

Furthermore, these pre-paid money are missing in the economy, they could have been used to create more goods and services.

Public sector grants jobs and services like a priest grants holy crackers. Limited amount to chosen ones. If we want more, too bad.
Private sector does not work like that, the more we want, the richer we get, because the demand for goods increases the value of money and the demand for money motivates people to produce. This is why Libertarians really care about the poor, they want to make them richer by actually producing stuff. The government cares about the poor the same way that a drug dealer cares about the addicts.

I believe there is nothing that lady could possibly say that would change these principles. Economy 101, man! It's not physics, but close enough Wink Give me several days till I pass the exams. Then I'll listen to her and probably find out the very same thing.
Do you want to bet, or something? What about an apology video, one minute long for the one who's wrong?
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29-05-2014, 01:35 PM
RE: Is having a government scientific?
I hate to say it but Luminon is right. Without a knowledge of basic Economics there's no way of having a rational conversation about the free market.

Anarchism however, is a different beast entirely.

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor
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29-05-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: Is having a government scientific?
(29-05-2014 12:18 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Psychism

Psychism? You mean like psychic abilities Psychisim?

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29-05-2014, 03:26 PM
RE: Is having a government scientific?
(29-05-2014 01:35 PM)djkamilo Wrote:  I hate to say it but Luminon is right. Without a knowledge of basic Economics there's no way of having a rational conversation about the free market.

Anarchism however, is a different beast entirely.
OK. What if basic psychology is necessary to have a rational conversation about anarchism? I mean the childhood upbringing stuff - repressed trauma, shaming into conformity, projection of fear from parents, idealizing authority by Stockholm syndrome (fantasy bond), lack of motivation into chores, and so on.
If people knew how broken they are in these ways... Oh, I'll admit it - we are unfit for anarchism. I come from a halfway welfare family and I understand job market about as much as Cjlr understands economy. My confidence in Capitalism is a rational calculation.
But this unfitness of ours has parental (and educational) reasons that I just stated. These reasons can be corrected by self-knowledge and prevented by voluntary parenting. People weren't ready when some idealists wanted to end slavery either.

(29-05-2014 03:23 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  Psychism? You mean like psychic abilities Psychisim?
That was my attempt at humor and irony Sad - you know I style myself as Alex Grey's painting model!
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29-05-2014, 03:30 PM
RE: Is having a government scientific?
(29-05-2014 03:26 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(29-05-2014 01:35 PM)djkamilo Wrote:  I hate to say it but Luminon is right. Without a knowledge of basic Economics there's no way of having a rational conversation about the free market.

Anarchism however, is a different beast entirely.
OK. What if basic psychology is necessary to have a rational conversation about anarchism? I mean the childhood upbringing stuff - repressed trauma, shaming into conformity, projection of fear from parents, idealizing authority by Stockholm syndrome (fantasy bond), lack of motivation into chores, and so on.
If people knew how broken they are in these ways... Oh, I'll admit it - we are unfit for anarchism. I come from a halfway welfare family and I understand job market about as much as Cjlr understands economy. My confidence in Capitalism is a rational calculation.
But this unfitness of ours has parental (and educational) reasons that I just stated. These reasons can be corrected by self-knowledge and prevented by voluntary parenting. People weren't ready when some idealists wanted to end slavery either.

Wow that was one of the whiniest most blame everyone else for your failures take 0 responsibility approaches to life I have ever heard. What if the proper way to approach anarchism is to realise it is an infantile fantasy that ignores all data everywhere in favor of a rebel at all costs mindset? The rest of your statement is par for the course public mastrabation.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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29-05-2014, 03:38 PM
RE: Is having a government scientific?
(29-05-2014 03:26 PM)Luminon Wrote:  That was my attempt at humor and irony Sad - you know I style myself as Alex Grey's painting model!

But I barely know you.

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29-05-2014, 03:42 PM
RE: Is having a government scientific?
(29-05-2014 03:26 PM)Luminon Wrote:  OK. What if basic psychology is necessary to have a rational conversation about anarchism? I mean the childhood upbringing stuff - repressed trauma, shaming into conformity, projection of fear from parents, idealizing authority by Stockholm syndrome (fantasy bond), lack of motivation into chores, and so on.
If people knew how broken they are in these ways... Oh, I'll admit it - we are unfit for anarchism. I come from a halfway welfare family and I understand job market about as much as Cjlr understands economy. My confidence in Capitalism is a rational calculation.
But this unfitness of ours has parental (and educational) reasons that I just stated. These reasons can be corrected by self-knowledge and prevented by voluntary parenting. People weren't ready when some idealists wanted to end slavery either.

No I won't bite into the FDR communion cracker of blaming your parents for being pro government. By Molyneux's standards there is no good parent in the 21st century except FDR parents. It's a circular argument. You don't like anarchism because your parents didn't listen to FDR.

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29-05-2014, 04:40 PM (This post was last modified: 29-05-2014 04:49 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Is having a government scientific?
(29-05-2014 03:42 PM)djkamilo Wrote:  No I won't bite into the FDR communion cracker of blaming your parents for being pro government. By Molyneux's standards there is no good parent in the 21st century except FDR parents. It's a circular argument. You don't like anarchism because your parents didn't listen to FDR.
Well, it's your call to analyze your childhood. You probably should, although you seem by far the most reasonable and logical person I have met here in a long time. (there may be others, but they participate less in the discussion)

I have respect to Molyneux's intelligence, because I never managed to catch him at any simple mistake, such as demanding perfection. For example, he says that parents don't have to be perfect at all. They only must not be self-righteous, must not cover their mistakes by posing themselves as virtuous and blaming and punishing the children for their mistakes. If parents make mistakes with honesty, then the child at least know what is right and what is wrong. They can hurt the child (not intentionally of course, that would be sadism and the child would know), but the child must be allowed to express anger, pain and mourning to release the feelings instead of repressing them. That's a way to stay mentally healthy even if shit happens.

If not, it's like the religious upbringing, they can make you believe that you are inherently flawed and sinful and that authority can do no wrong. That's called moral violence.

(29-05-2014 03:38 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  But I barely know you.
Ah, sorry, you're one of the new guys here. See my avatar picture? The colourful New Agey figure? That's sentiment of mine, I do a lot of meditation of Indian origin and I study transcendental experiences. (getting high without drugs) Most atheists are more into Buddhism, if anything at all, I'm more into some westernized Hindu offshoots.
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