Is ignorance of God a way of avoiding hell?
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10-10-2012, 11:07 AM
Is ignorance of God a way of avoiding hell?
A friend sent me this today as part of a mass mailing:

[Image: InuitPriest.jpg]

So I'm wondering: Do Christians really believe this? That is, if you've never heard of God and sin and the Bible and Jesus and the "good news" and all that, are you exempt from hell? Whatever the answer is, do all denominations agree, or are there doctrinal differences?

I have no idea, but I bet some of the experts on the board can enlighten me. Smile

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10-10-2012, 11:29 AM
RE: Is ignorance of God a way of avoiding hell?
Arminians:

They claim

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

as well as Melchizedek (he came from no where with the knowledge of Yahweh).

Calvinists:

They claim that God has already chosen people for salvation and that every person that is elect will have a "regeneration". This is a revealing and understanding of God by God Himself and it cures any ignorance of God.

So, basically, no. The Bible does not teach that ignorance is a get-out-of-Hell-free card.

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10-10-2012, 11:38 AM
RE: Is ignorance of God a way of avoiding hell?
Oh man. They've been arguing how to "insert" this question into their Humongous Structure of Crap, (oh, pardon me), I mean "Theology", for eons. In fact SO long that even very recently they decided to "do away" with "limbo".
*cough, cough*. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo
I don't even remember all the various iterations of the discussion, about this. It even went so far as (St.) Thomas Aquinas, actually , really, (no I'm serious), wrote chapters on what happens to the souls of unbaptized babies, if they die before they are baptized. Not only is there a hell, BUT, there are levels of hell. *cough, cough*.

I'm trying to think of a good word/words to describe what this HUGE fantasy-world, or super-structure should be called, where grown adults spend their time "connecting dots", trying to make their systems internally self-consistent, and re-drawing lines, to make sure it all holds up, on some level.

Any ideas ? "Bullshit" comes to mind, but there has to be a better way to say it.

Some Catholics are actually really pissed-off that the Pope said "no more Limbo".
http://vivirlatino.com/2007/04/23/pope-n...r-hell.php

To answer your question: the answer changed. They used to not go to heaven, (the highest level), I think ?? Now they do, IF they're good.
(Which BTW raises the "origins of morality" business, if they admit it innate). There is a quote from St. Paul about this. I'm too lazy to go find it. Weeping
http://www.catholicity.com/catechism/the...holic.html

There was always a discussion about what happened to people who died before Jeebus died etc etc. You don't really want to know all that crap, I hope.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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10-10-2012, 12:11 PM
RE: Is ignorance of God a way of avoiding hell?
I need to try to get this straight in my mind because I think I missed something along the way.

If you are one of the elect and you sin (bad sins...as Catholics we called them mortal sins) you can still be sent to hell...yes, no? So if some of the elect do get sent to hell, are there alternates? Or is this where God knows everything ahead of time and his elect are sure to be good enough to get into heaven.

But, if you are a wonderful, loving person that follows every rule laid out in the Bible and praises God, all the bells and whistles...but you aren't elect, tough crap...no heaven for you, is that how this philosophy works?

Or is this another situation where God doesn't make mistakes...he chose this elect group correctly...since he could see into the future and all?


On the Limbo thing...where are the baby souls now! Damn it...I want to know...it's not like I wasn't forced to pray for them when I was a kid...I'd like to know what happened when they closed Limbo. We gave money, lit candles, and prayed a lot for Limbo babies and the souls of their heathen parents.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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10-10-2012, 12:16 PM
RE: Is ignorance of God a way of avoiding hell?
Kind of shitty that evangelical stuff; it admonishes believers to "spread" the word. In this way, the new testament does for the common man what the old testament did for god. Pretty much makes modern humans strive to become possessive, jealous, control freak, gangsters. Very much like the character god of the old testament stories.

And why not? It all makes for a fun batch of stories. Thumbsup

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10-10-2012, 12:32 PM
RE: Is ignorance of God a way of avoiding hell?
(10-10-2012 12:16 PM)kim Wrote:  Kind of shitty that evangelical stuff; it admonishes believers to "spread" the word. In this way, the new testament does for the common man what the old testament did for god. Pretty much makes modern humans strive to become possessive, jealous, control freak, gangsters. Very much like the character god of the old testament stories.

And why not? It all makes for a fun batch of stories. Thumbsup

Fun batch of stories as in "Today in the News..." or "Tonights Sermon will consist of..."?

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10-10-2012, 03:00 PM
RE: Is ignorance of God a way of avoiding hell?
The simple way of saying it is if you have Ignorance then no you cannot go to heaven, if you have nescience then you can.
Essentially ignorance is could have known and should have known, while nescience is could not have known or should not have known.

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10-10-2012, 03:28 PM
RE: Is ignorance of God a way of avoiding hell?
(10-10-2012 11:29 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  as well as Melchizedek (he came from no where with the knowledge of Yahweh).

He came from the J source , and fits perfectly into the Documentary Hypothesis, and into the "priestly politics", of the time. As a "person" he pops up, but he supports 100 % the use of, and positioning of the J source, and interests, and the Yahwists. When I get to it, (*sigh*), I'll write a paper on priests/church "politics" in Ancient Israel.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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10-10-2012, 05:59 PM
RE: Is ignorance of God a way of avoiding hell?
That pictures logic is flawless.

Who even really knows what Christians believe these days.
On one hand they quote the bible but then on the other they have sex outside marriage etc...
On one hand something literally happened in the bible and then on the next heaven forbid you take anything literally in the bible.
They're hardly the most consistent people in the world. They're extremely selective, they're Christian, just.. only when it's convenient. And I'm going to hell?

You wanna know the only people on this planet who come close to qualifying to going to heaven? Extremist Muslims. At least they commit.

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10-10-2012, 06:13 PM (This post was last modified: 11-10-2012 09:45 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Is ignorance of God a way of avoiding hell?
(10-10-2012 11:07 AM)cufflink Wrote:  A friend sent me this today as part of a mass mailing:

[Image: InuitPriest.jpg]

So I'm wondering: Do Christians really believe this? That is, if you've never heard of God and sin and the Bible and Jesus and the "good news" and all that, are you exempt from hell? Whatever the answer is, do all denominations agree, or are there doctrinal differences?

I have no idea, but I bet some of the experts on the board can enlighten me. Smile

I love his shifty eyes. You should have fixed the pic to say,
"do you think I would look better with the red helmet, or or the gold one" ?
or, "the butler did WHAT now ?"

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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