Is innate morality objective?
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02-02-2014, 12:22 AM
RE: Is innate morality objective?
(02-02-2014 12:13 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Comparative Morality?
Compatible Morality?

Any suggestions?

Consensus morality. The idea of human rights is a useful fiction and only those that are opposed to them have a problem with that. The domain in which humans enjoy human rights is a type of consensus reality, i.e. it exists only because we decided that it exists and have built apparatus for its policing and enforcement. If it works for human rights then it should be able to work for morality in general.
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02-02-2014, 12:41 AM
RE: Is innate morality objective?
(02-02-2014 12:22 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(02-02-2014 12:13 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Comparative Morality?
Compatible Morality?

Any suggestions?

Consensus morality. The idea of human rights is a useful fiction and only those that are opposed to them have a problem with that. The domain in which humans enjoy human rights is a type of consensus reality, i.e. it exists only because we decided that it exists and have built apparatus for its policing and enforcement. If it works for human rights then it should be able to work for morality in general.

Not bad.

It's still a little too anthropocentric for my tastes.

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02-02-2014, 12:53 AM
RE: Is innate morality objective?
(02-02-2014 12:41 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(02-02-2014 12:22 AM)Chippy Wrote:  Consensus morality. The idea of human rights is a useful fiction and only those that are opposed to them have a problem with that. The domain in which humans enjoy human rights is a type of consensus reality, i.e. it exists only because we decided that it exists and have built apparatus for its policing and enforcement. If it works for human rights then it should be able to work for morality in general.

Not bad.

It's still a little too anthropocentric for my tastes.

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May I ask why? if I understand the term correctly, it pertains to humankind.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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02-02-2014, 01:04 AM
RE: Is innate morality objective?
(02-02-2014 12:53 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(02-02-2014 12:41 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Not bad.

It's still a little too anthropocentric for my tastes.

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May I ask why? if I understand the term correctly, it pertains to humankind.

Indeed, you may.
And yes, it does.

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02-02-2014, 01:29 AM
RE: Is innate morality objective?
(02-02-2014 12:22 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(02-02-2014 12:13 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Comparative Morality?
Compatible Morality?

Any suggestions?

Consensus morality. The idea of human rights is a useful fiction and only those that are opposed to them have a problem with that. The domain in which humans enjoy human rights is a type of consensus reality,

i.e. it exists only because we decided that it exists and have built apparatus for its policing and enforcement.
That bold part is the scary part, that is what wars are fought over, and what rulers use to justify oppressing the people.

People can believe in morality all they want. They can debate it, promote it, live their own lives as a living example and I am fine with that.
But the moment it is used to force people to conform, that is the moment I oppose it.
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02-02-2014, 01:31 AM
RE: Is innate morality objective?
Can a moderator please split this thread and move the separated part to the pit?

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02-02-2014, 01:37 AM
RE: Is innate morality objective?
(02-02-2014 01:31 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Can a moderator please split this thread and move the separated part to the pit?

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Rightfully so. Only a matter of time...

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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02-02-2014, 01:46 AM
RE: Is innate morality objective?
(02-02-2014 01:29 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(02-02-2014 12:22 AM)Chippy Wrote:  Consensus morality. The idea of human rights is a useful fiction and only those that are opposed to them have a problem with that. The domain in which humans enjoy human rights is a type of consensus reality,

i.e. it exists only because we decided that it exists and have built apparatus for its policing and enforcement.
That bold part is the scary part, that is what wars are fought over, and what rulers use to justify oppressing the people.

People can believe in morality all they want. They can debate it, promote it, live their own lives as a living example and I am fine with that.
But the moment it is used to force people to conform, that is the moment I oppose it.

I'm always pleased to see you join the proceedings... usually an indicator of a good discussion.

OK, so I get what you mean regarding ideologies.

My issue with your stance is always at a more mundane level.

Example: There was the derailed discussion (in another thread) about 'forcing' people to conform to wearing seat belts.

Similarly, in business frameworks, the organisation wants to get everyone working together towards a common vision (decided by the -ocracy, influenced by shareholders, competitors, regulators etc. and complied with by the workforce). Moral, social and financial incentives and penalties are used.

Surely some form of coercion (deliberately avoiding the word 'force') is legitimate?

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02-02-2014, 01:52 AM
RE: Is innate morality objective?
Thread Split on request. Apologies, I had to close the thread to prevent posts that would need more splitting.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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02-02-2014, 01:58 AM
RE: Is innate morality objective?
(02-02-2014 01:46 AM)DLJ Wrote:  My issue with your stance is always at a more mundane level.

That he moralizes amorality? No, wait, that's my issue. Tongue

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