Is it OK to have sex with kids?
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14-10-2011, 03:30 PM
 
RE: Is it OK to have sex with kids?
(14-10-2011 03:01 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  I think the real issue is adult & kid having sex. I would hope most here would see what's wrong with that. Kids will have sex regardless, but it is our job to educate them. It is wrong for us to engage in it with them though.

Generally speaking I agree with this. Fifty-year olds having sex with 15-year olds is highly suspect. However, it is difficult to draw the line. Some young people can be considerably older than their age and some older people considerably younger.

Peterkin's point is relevant here: "We seem to consider everybody under 18 total nincompoops (which suddenly, magically changes at the stroke of midnight!) who can't be trusted with their own bodies".

So what is wrong with considering each case on its own merit? I know it is a bother to think and use judgement but, what the heck, we, as a society, are wasting so much time on figuring out how to exploit sex, we can add a few more brain cells to trying to be fair to our children.

"Zero tolerance" laws are the perfect sign of utter incompetence and of abrogating responsibility.
14-10-2011, 04:20 PM
RE: Is it OK to have sex with kids?
(14-10-2011 03:30 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(14-10-2011 03:01 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  I think the real issue is adult & kid having sex. I would hope most here would see what's wrong with that. Kids will have sex regardless, but it is our job to educate them. It is wrong for us to engage in it with them though.

Generally speaking I agree with this. Fifty-year olds having sex with 15-year olds is highly suspect. However, it is difficult to draw the line. Some young people can be considerably older than their age and some older people considerably younger.

Peterkin's point is relevant here: "We seem to consider everybody under 18 total nincompoops (which suddenly, magically changes at the stroke of midnight!) who can't be trusted with their own bodies".

So what is wrong with considering each case on its own merit? I know it is a bother to think and use judgement but, what the heck, we, as a society, are wasting so much time on figuring out how to exploit sex, we can add a few more brain cells to trying to be fair to our children.

"Zero tolerance" laws are the perfect sign of utter incompetence and of abrogating responsibility.

Problem is, you can't legislate based on emotional maturity. You have to pick something that can be easily measured or determined, like age. And 99% of people under 15 are nowhere near mature enough. I'd still say 80% of kids under 18 are still immature. Maybe it was different in 1920, but it's 2011 now.

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14-10-2011, 04:33 PM
 
RE: Is it OK to have sex with kids?
(14-10-2011 04:20 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  Problem is, you can't legislate based on emotional maturity.

You don't NEED to legislate anything based on age. Period.

If you think someone is harmed, bring it in front of a judge. It is his honour's job to look at the case, hear all parties and use "mature" judgement to determine if harm was done.

(S)he is not a robot with push-buttons on his/her head: "under 16 -- rape" -- "over 16 --OK"

We are just too damn lazy to make the effort of judging individual cases on individual merits.

Applying blanket judgements automatically, like a robot, is a lot easier -- and potentially a lot more harmful.

Think, people!!! Think!!! All the time!!!

PS. Laws should be guidelines, not straight jackets. Judges are there exactly for using judgment in applying laws.
14-10-2011, 09:15 PM
RE: Is it OK to have sex with kids?
You can say we are too lazy to push past that thinking, but actually finding out if someone was or was not harmed is the impossible situation.

It can't measured what harm the person was harmed if yet it is known a vast many are being done too.

The resources to go into trying to be more open and fair in judgement in all cases would be extreme or be requiring remote monitoring of people for legit accuracy.
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15-10-2011, 01:38 AM
RE: Is it OK to have sex with kids?
One must question the psychological and sexual maturity of a consenting "adult" who wants to have sex with a "consenting" child. Did this person have some trauma which stunted their growth? It has been statistically suggested that child predators often molest children of a similar age which they experienced sexual trauma themselves.
………
As reluctant as I am to comment further….
Children are dependent from birth through adolescence on some particular dynamic for security in their life. Control of themselves and creation of their own autonomy is the goal of any young adult. Usually, the family fulfills early dependency and as a child grows, independence is broadened to expose a child to a greater variety of experience. Throughout this formative span, a child's physical maturity becomes apparent and their psychological maturity is enhanced to include sexuality, before or at the onset of puberty.
Adolescence is on the way; let the hormonal bombardment begin. At this point an adolescent begins to explore the entire world, lead by extremes in emotion, greatly magnified by excessive hormones surging through their ever changing bodies. Psychological nature expands as independence is continually tested. The dynamic which has possibly guided and kept one secure, is still there but more and more self reliance supplies confidence to cope with new, ever changing experiences. The scope of sexual maturity broadens as an adolescent is able to psychologically cope with daily life experiences. Sexual maturity can not advance without psychological maturity and reaching this phase is completely individual and unique, there is no timeframe or measurement. As sexual and psychological maturity advances, breaking free from the previous dynamic and forming a new, very personal dynamic comes about, with still greater confidence being attained. They find themselves finally, on their own with an enormous amount of extreme urges, which they alone can teach themselves to master. If one is confidently in control of their own sexuality and psychologically secure, sex can the most incredible, intimate experience life has to offer. However, extreme emotion continues to govern the psychology and sexuality of the adolescent; they are highly impressional, naive, and very easily manipulated.
In short, adolescence is very possibly one of the most vulnerable stages in the life of a human being.

Now, let me pose this question to anyone here:

At this very impressionable, still somewhat innocent, emotional, very vulnerable stage, is it ok to take an adolescent to join a church?
Most people agree that actions which harm others are wrong, but many actions are [totally fucked] which do not harm anyone and are known as victimless crimes. Why not [take a kid to church] if doesn't "hurt" anyone? Many assume that a child will be 'traumatized' by [attending church] with an adult, however this is not true.
. . . . . .
Suppose a child [has consented to attend church] with an adult in a society where this is permitted (and therefore not immoral/taboo etc). In what way would the child be harmed?

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15-10-2011, 03:00 AM
RE: Is it OK to have sex with kids?
I agree with Azaraith, you cannot legislate based on emotional maturity. If you tried to have a law with no age of consent and just said something as vague as it is inappropriate to have sex who isn't emotionally ready then you would make it impossible to get any sort of conviction. Not only would you have to prove that someone wasn't emotionally ready and was harmed by the act, you would probably have to prove the defendant had cause to know it as well. All that without any form of reasonable doubt? I don't believe it's possible in any but the most extreme cases. It would a prosecutors nightmare and a defence lawyers paradise. There would also be a million and one loopholes that you would have to contend with.

Like I said, I don't think the current way is perfect but I have yet to hear a viable alternative that I think is better.

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15-10-2011, 05:01 AM
RE: Is it OK to have sex with kids?
I will agree with Zatamon here. We have more or less established what it means to be "a kid". So would you say under 16 is a kid. But what is 17 year old then? Not a kid? And the other problem is what do you mean when you say "adult"? 21? 31? Because if someone is 21 while the other party is 16, that is only 5 year difference, not such a big deal, but we have an "adult" - "child" situation. As far as I have seen, most girls in the age of 16-17 have boyfriends at the age of 19-22. In my high-school all the girls had about 5 years older boyfriends and I was always jealous... So this whole thread is ridiculous, because it is hard to categorize all of this. We can not point a finger when somebody stops being a child, or when someone becomes an adult, nor can we generalize when is someone mentally or physically ready for sex.

If we have a 30 years gap between two parties, where one is 15-16 and the other is 45-50, that is wrong in so many ways and those older parties should be dealt with. But if one of them has (let's say) 22+ and the other has 45-50, it becomes normal.

Stark, if your daughter is (just a wild guess) 15 and she has a boyfriend who is 18, would you consider that wrong, or normal? it's only 3 years, but he will be much "readier" for sex, if we look only their age. BTW, in my previous posts, I was writing like a child and like I was 10-15 years ago, do not judge my future parenting upon this, I was only trying to show you the kids side of this story. It is very good that you have that kind of relationship with your kids, but that is very rare, not everyone is so lucky, or such a good parent.

I think this whole argument makes no sense, so I will stop from posting. Find something more interesting to talk about. Smile

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15-10-2011, 09:54 AM
 
RE: Is it OK to have sex with kids?
(13-10-2011 07:31 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  Adults with kids is absolutely, unquestionably NOT okay.

The problem here is not the sex but the definition of adult and kid.
Pre-puberty is a child, period. Keep off!
Post puberty sex needs to be judged case by case - not by age but by circumstances. It should be a social matter, not a legal one, unless coercion is involved - in which case it's rape and already a criminal offense, regardless of age... though i would probably judge it more harshly the more helpless the victim was.

I think Peterkin covered it all, admirably succinctly, with this post.
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16-10-2011, 01:37 AM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2011 01:46 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Is it OK to have sex with kids?
(15-10-2011 05:01 AM)Filox Wrote:  Stark, if your daughter is (just a wild guess) 15 and she has a boyfriend who is 18, would you consider that wrong, or normal?

That's how old my wife and I were when we started schtupping some 30 years ago now. That's how old my now 20 yo daughter was when she became sexually active (at least that's when I started paying for her birth control pills). Just FYI.

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16-10-2011, 02:47 AM
RE: Is it OK to have sex with kids?
Everyone keeps saying that we should judge each case by its own merit. Can someone please tell me how this is going to work in a court of law? Can somebody please tell me how you plan to secure convictions for paedophiles?

Either you've all come up with a fantastic system for how this will work in the justice system or you have no understanding of how the courts work at all.

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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
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Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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