Poll: Is promoting atheism a moral responsibility
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Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
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07-09-2016, 08:28 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
As long as things like these are happening, yes, I'd think so.

Muslims often think that the entire worlds media is out to make Islam look bad. Every terrorists attack is fake and done to make Islam look bad. But pay attention how CNN not once mentions Islam here.

Why should't we be able to say "Hey dumb fucks, this may be okay by your stone age religion, but morally, no it is not okay"




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07-09-2016, 08:50 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
I think it's morally obligatory to promote skepticism and critical thinking. I suppose atheism falls under that. I don't want to force people to believe a certain way, but rather want people to know how to exercise their brain and have access to reputable information.

Intelligence is one of the human race's greatest strengths and to see religion try to get people to 'lean not on their own understanding' is reprehensible at the least.

Ignorance is not to be ignored.

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07-09-2016, 02:15 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
Quote: Muslims often think that the entire worlds media is out to make Islam look bad. Every terrorists attack is fake and done to make Islam look bad. But pay attention how CNN not once mentions Islam here.

They are wrong. Neither islam nor other religions need help with making themselves looking bad.

Quote: Why should't we be able to say "Hey dumb fucks, this may be okay by your stone age religion, but morally, no it is not okay"

We are able to say such but indoctrinated minds will care not or they will be offended.

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07-09-2016, 06:43 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
izel I notice you are very hostile against islam. In almost every post you demonise islam much more then any other religion. Judging by your name, you are not too far from culture or place I grew up in. Anyway, promoting atheism is not gonna change anything, bad people will still do bad things, its not all about religion. At least that's my opinion.
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07-09-2016, 07:01 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(07-09-2016 06:43 PM)Argus Wrote:  izel I notice you are very hostile against islam. In almost every post you demonise islam much more then any other religion. Judging by your name, you are not too far from culture or place I grew up in. Anyway, promoting atheism is not gonna change anything, bad people will still do bad things, its not all about religion. At least that's my opinion.
The thing is, there is really no such thing as bad people.
We arent' determined by having a bad soul or by having bad genetics (well except for some physical based mental issues).
To use a highly vague, somewhat accurate phrase, in the context of this thread
"There is good and bad in everyone."

What is it that makes us do things which are dangerous or offensive to other people?
Many factors:
Desperate situations
Lack of a future or regard for our own future
Lack of respect for ourselves
Mental issues
Extreme support for idealism.

How do we come into an idealism?
By being pulled into idealistic organisations (religious, supremacy groups, feminism, racial/cultural based groups, etc)
By having strong moral beliefs
By having strong political affiliation
By buying into some rule (for Americans it might be 1st or 2nd amendment), for others it might be humanism or sanctity of life or such other.

The vast majority of Islamic people are not terrorists and don't applaud Sharia law. Westerners certainly do get a biased perception of this particular religion from the media.
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07-09-2016, 08:05 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(07-09-2016 06:43 PM)Argus Wrote:  izel I notice you are very hostile against islam. In almost every post you demonise islam much more then any other religion. Judging by your name, you are not too far from culture or place I grew up in. Anyway, promoting atheism is not gonna change anything, bad people will still do bad things, its not all about religion. At least that's my opinion.

No, it's not all about religion, but a lot of really horrible shit goes down in the name of religion that would otherwise not happen. It's not the religion that does it, per se, it's the fact that religion often subverts people's ability to reason and empathize in order to promote itself.

It's funny you accuse her of being "very hostile against Islam", because one of the most frequently complaints we atheists have leveled against us is of giving Islam a free pass while we focus on Christianity. Neither Izel nor we give a free pass to any of these belief systems... we just deal most often with with the one with which we are most familiar, and which most commonly presents troubles in our immediate world.

If you're prefer, new guy, we can switch roles.

Izel can start mocking Christian magical-fairytale-stories endlessly, and I'll start pointing out the slightly passive-aggressive, veiled threats employed by Muslims in order to defend their child-abusive, violent cult that is so shameful to mankind that in another couple of centuries (as technology advances and they can't keep everyone ignorant anymore), the grandchildren of every Muslim child living today will be ashamed to admit their families ever believed such silly, superstitious nonsense about moon god cults in the desert.

Or would you prefer we just keep doing what we're doing now?

Grrr... sorry everyone else, but that "not too far" line just read like a veiled threat to me, and it kinda set me off. Angry

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07-09-2016, 08:55 PM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2016 08:59 PM by Argus.)
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(07-09-2016 08:05 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(07-09-2016 06:43 PM)Argus Wrote:  izel I notice you are very hostile against islam. In almost every post you demonise islam much more then any other religion. Judging by your name, you are not too far from culture or place I grew up in. Anyway, promoting atheism is not gonna change anything, bad people will still do bad things, its not all about religion. At least that's my opinion.

No, it's not all about religion, but a lot of really horrible shit goes down in the name of religion that would otherwise not happen. It's not the religion that does it, per se, it's the fact that religion often subverts people's ability to reason and empathize in order to promote itself.

It's funny you accuse her of being "very hostile against Islam", because one of the most frequently complaints we atheists have leveled against us is of giving Islam a free pass while we focus on Christianity. Neither Izel nor we give a free pass to any of these belief systems... we just deal most often with with the one with which we are most familiar, and which most commonly presents troubles in our immediate world.

If you're prefer, new guy, we can switch roles.

Izel can start mocking Christian magical-fairytale-stories endlessly, and I'll start pointing out the slightly passive-aggressive, veiled threats employed by Muslims in order to defend their child-abusive, violent cult that is so shameful to mankind that in another couple of centuries (as technology advances and they can't keep everyone ignorant anymore), the grandchildren of every Muslim child living today will be ashamed to admit their families ever believed such silly, superstitious nonsense about moon god cults in the desert.

Or would you prefer we just keep doing what we're doing now?

Grrr... sorry everyone else, but that "not too far" line just read like a veiled threat to me, and it kinda set me off. Angry

It wasn't meant to be veiled, what I meant by "not too far" (later I noticed she's turkish) and I am Albanian which is very similar culture since we adopted islam and a lot of Turkish culture from the ottomans. Any way, I do agree with you, I am muslim I live in US and I personally am embarrassed to tell people that I am muslim because of the shit that's being done in the name of islam. With that said, these people are scavenges and they do not represent me or anything I do in daily bases with my religion. My apologies if right words wasn't used in my initial post, I haven't hurt a fly in my life, let alone a person.
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07-09-2016, 08:56 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(07-09-2016 08:05 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  No, it's not all about religion, but a lot of really horrible shit goes down in the name of religion that would otherwise not happen. It's not the religion that does it, per se, it's the fact that religion often subverts people's ability to reason and empathize in order to promote itself.

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07-09-2016, 10:09 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
It's a moral responsibility to not be uppity about shit, or to turn everything into a moral issue.

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07-09-2016, 10:23 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(07-09-2016 08:55 PM)Argus Wrote:  It wasn't meant to be veiled, what I meant by "not too far" (later I noticed she's turkish) and I am Albanian which is very similar culture since we adopted islam and a lot of Turkish culture from the ottomans. Any way, I do agree with you, I am muslim I live in US and I personally am embarrassed to tell people that I am muslim because of the shit that's being done in the name of islam. With that said, these people are scavenges and they do not represent me or anything I do in daily bases with my religion. My apologies if right words wasn't used in my initial post, I haven't hurt a fly in my life, let alone a person.

No apology is necessary, RS is the protective big brother I never had Smile.

To answer your question, I criticize İslam more is because that's what I know more. That's what I've studied, that's what I grew up with. We have to criticize bad ideas, and İslam is full of them. You claim it doesn't represent you, and that's great, if it keeps you sane, and gives you comfort that you'll spend an eternity in paradise after death, just by being good person, by all means, believe what makes you happy. But to say that "these savages does not represent your religion" is wrong.

First step to fix a problem is to recognize there is one. And İslam has a lot of them, its founder being one. The video I posted is only acceptable in Muslim world, have you ever wondered why? I think we all know the answer to that, so why can't we just accept it? especially Muslims like your self, and I know there is more of you than the "savages" and the more of you speaks out, the better off we would be.

ISIS, Al-qaida, Al-Nusra and all the other terror organizations that Muslims claim "Does Not Represent My Religion" ARE driven by İslam and we have to accept that no matter how uncomfortable it may be. Even more uncomfortable is a large part of what they're doing is supported in İslamic fiqh, hadith and even some interpretation of Quran.

Muhammed the founder of İslam was a bad man, ruthless in fact. Muslims always find a way to defend Muhammed when it comes to him performing or ordering acts of violence. For example, the assassinations of Asma Bint Marwan and Abu Afak are simply brushed aside by saying that these stories are based on unreliable/inauthentic sources of information. And, other acts of violence done under Muhammed receive the same treatment by Muslims (disregarded due to them being based on unreliable/inauthentic material), such as the torture and assassination of Kenana Ibn al-Rabi. However, there is one very, very well documented act of violence committed by Muhammed, and this is probably one of the most ruthless things he's ever done. Ironically, the stories Muslims don't accept (such as the assassinations I discussed above) are not even as bad as this one, which is accepted. The story according to one narration in Sahih Bukhari (4:52:261) goes as follows (there are many other narrations but this is just one): (Narrated Anas bin Malik) A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk." Allah's Apostle said, "I recommend that you should join the herd of camels." So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died.

So, as you can see, these 8 men were brutally tortured before being left for dead for murder, theft, and apostasy. Muslims defend Muhammed's killing of the 8 men by saying that the 8 men deserved this because they murdered the shepherd, robbed him, and then left İslam. Furthermore, they defend the torture by quoting another narration in which it is said that the 8 men caused harm to the shepherd's eyes before killing him, so Muhammed had the same done to the 8 men (an eye for an eye). But, even if the 8 men tortured the shepherd (harming his eyes), murdered him, robbed him, and then left İslam, does that mean Muhammed does all of this? Muhammed took things to a whole new level. He tortured them brutally, he had their hands and feet chopped off and he didn't even stop the bleeding. Then he had their eyes gouged out, and finally he had them left outside in the sun to bleed and starve to death.

This is complete injustice by a man claimed to be perfect in every way. The kind of behavior portrayed by Muhammed here is an example for Muslims and it is absolutely barbaric. How can anybody defend such a man?

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