Poll: Is promoting atheism a moral responsibility
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Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
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08-09-2016, 01:39 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
Okay, I'm sorry, Argus... I'm glad I read that wrong. Yeah, I kinda went "big bro protective mode", in defense of Izel.

The funny part is that I spend a lot of time explaining the "most Muslims don't think the way those assholes do", both here on the board and in real life, as I have several Muslim friends (half of the residents my apartment complex are Muslim, I learned, as well) and work pretty hard to understand all religions and to be tolerant of the faith practices of others up to the point that those practices begin to impose on people who do not choose to practice that faith.

I do this so much that I am often accused of being an apologist FOR Islam. Undecided

But as Izel pointed out, there's a whoooole lot that people in the Muslim world need to account for, to be honest about, and to grow up and face head on.

Christianity was just as backward and bloodthirsty as Islam, and only fairly recently managed to purge (most of) the barbaric roots from their social paradigm. Muslims need to take a good hard look at themselves, I think, especially the good-hearted ones.

Because even you are forced to admit that, despite Turkey being one of the most secular Islamic-majority nations, the fact is that she has to hide her apostasy from her family, friends, and neighbors or risk having something bad done to her simply for walking away from something that is supposedly a free choice of every individual, between them and God.

The fact is that it was quite possible that your reminder that you were probably close to her was actually a subtle reminder of that danger, and thus a threat. And even though you're a good guy and wouldn't even think of such a thing, you know that this is still the case.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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12-09-2016, 07:15 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 10:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  People pray on top of doing what they can. Such as the family of the man getting treated for his cancer at the hospital, praying that he recovers, while also undergoing treatment.

Or the one praying for a friend in financial straights, while also taking up a collection box to help him out.

You are a hypocrite and liar. Master dearest wrote the cancer blueprint, and made the nerves by which you suffer. Maybe if you beg him enough, he'll change his plan for you. You don't believe it either, so you do what you can. It's pathetic.

Quote:Some christians exploit the poor, some christians don't. Some fight tooth and nail for them, often at the risk of their own life, some exploit them for their own financial gain, some sacrifice their all for them.

How cute. Make humility and charity into a virtue, and you can watch the Christians line up to prove their lowliness. Yet the most lowly of all, the shepherd, was ever a lover of poverty, not the poor. Those who have nowhere else to go will listen to anything. The Christians have learned this lesson well. They offer a blood sacrifice first, and bread to the best listeners.

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12-09-2016, 10:55 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 06:02 AM)Pragmatix Wrote:  Seems to me that theism is a bad thing because it lets humanity off the hook for taking care of eachother/the world. Theists can just say "It's God's will" or "God will care for them/it" whenever an issue arises. People need to fight for what they believe in and theism allows people to simply let the imaginary sky daddy do the work. It's lazy. Ergo I think it's a moral duty to promote atheism - to try and convert as many theists into atheists as possible. Thoughts?

It is not only moral but I believe it's our duty to preach the book of science to all of what I call the sheep or ignorant so that they can be saved on the final day of logic.

It's only through science and in science alone that we are saved and granted eternal life.
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12-09-2016, 12:20 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(12-09-2016 10:55 AM)ScientificTruth321 Wrote:  It is not only moral but I believe it's our duty to preach the book of science to all of what I call the sheep or ignorant so that they can be saved on the final day of logic.

It's only through science and in science alone that we are saved and granted eternal life.

Simmer down there, nubile. Some of us like to wear our undies a little differently and some of us just don't wear 'em at all. Wink


By the way ... Welcome to the forum. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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12-09-2016, 01:25 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(12-09-2016 12:20 PM)kim Wrote:  
(12-09-2016 10:55 AM)ScientificTruth321 Wrote:  It is not only moral but I believe it's our duty to preach the book of science to all of what I call the sheep or ignorant so that they can be saved on the final day of logic.

It's only through science and in science alone that we are saved and granted eternal life.

Simmer down there, nubile. Some of us like to wear our undies a little differently and some of us just don't wear 'em at all. Wink


By the way ... Welcome to the forum. Shy

lol aww, well science is most merciful! Heart
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20-09-2016, 12:11 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
Hi all - thanks for taking me in (though I don't know what kind of reception I'll get). As the existence of God/a god/supreme being/whatever cannot be scientifically disproven, then there is no scientific "evidence" to support a hypothesis that there is no "god." I can prove that the Christian view of the Abrahamic God is flawed, but that proof does not extend to proof that no "god" exists. Therefore, belief that no "god" exists is not scientific, but rather an un-provable belief in and of itself. Now, is attempting to convert someone to your belief system any better than what Christians do? Maybe - if you believe that your beliefs are better than someone else's. But from a logical/scientific perspective, there's no difference in "pushing" one scientifically unprovable belief structure for another. Can a person prove that a particular viewpoint is logically flawed? Yes. Does that mean the can prove that heir own belief structure is correct? No. So, in my opinion, the farthest an atheist can go without slipping into hypocrisy is to point out the fallacies of any particular belief structure - that could not extend to advocating for a different one.
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20-09-2016, 05:33 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 08:55 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Real world data my friends, not some problematic sticker game involving children. Whatever interpretation you have of the sticker game results, are debunked in consideration of real world data when it comes to charitable giving, and participation.

Put your money where your mouth is.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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20-09-2016, 08:20 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(20-09-2016 12:11 AM)mrgr8avill Wrote:  As the existence of God/a god/supreme being/whatever cannot be scientifically disproven, then there is no scientific "evidence" to support a hypothesis that there is no "god."


I reccomend Victor Stenger "God: The Failed Hypothesis".


Quote: Therefore, belief that no "god" exists is not scientific, but rather an un-provable belief in and of itself.


Lack of belief or being unconvinced by whatever theists deem to be evidence is a better way to go.

Don't know about you but I don't believe in nonexistence of something called god, rather I'm absent belief in such.

Quote: But from a logical/scientific perspective, there's no difference in "pushing" one scientifically unprovable belief structure for another.


Atheism is lack of belief. Also lack of evidence where evidence should be clearly shows what is belief and what is fact or maybe most accurate state of our knowledge in regard to something called god. Again, I reccomend Stenger.

Quote: So, in my opinion, the farthest an atheist can go without slipping into hypocrisy is to point out the fallacies of any particular belief structure - that could not extend to advocating for a different one.

In my opinion atheist could point at lack of evidence, variety of religions depending on birthplace and vagueness of word "god".


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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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20-09-2016, 08:24 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(20-09-2016 12:11 AM)mrgr8avill Wrote:  So, in my opinion, the farthest an atheist can go without slipping into hypocrisy is to point out the fallacies of any particular belief structure - that could not extend to advocating for a different one.

What if the "belief structure" that is being advocated for is to refrain from believing things for which there is insufficient evidence?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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20-09-2016, 09:10 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(20-09-2016 12:11 AM)mrgr8avill Wrote:  Hi all - thanks for taking me in (though I don't know what kind of reception I'll get).
Howdy.

(20-09-2016 12:11 AM)mrgr8avill Wrote:  As the existence of God/a god/supreme being/whatever cannot be scientifically disproven, then there is no scientific "evidence" to support a hypothesis that there is no "god."

By definition a god is supernatural, or outside of nature. Since science only functions in regards to the natural world, then it would not be possible to prove that god exists with science.

It would be very possible to use science to disprove evidence presented to support a belief in a god.

(20-09-2016 12:11 AM)mrgr8avill Wrote:  I can prove that the Christian view of the Abrahamic God is flawed, but that proof does not extend to proof that no "god" exists.

You have evidence that the Christian god exists?

(20-09-2016 12:11 AM)mrgr8avill Wrote:  Therefore, belief that no "god" exists is not scientific, but rather an un-provable belief in and of itself.

Non-belief in any concept is the default status. If you hold belief in everything as the default then you are immediately forced into believing contradictory positions.

Do dragons and unicorns exist?
Does the Flying Spaghetti Monster exist?
Do the Norse, Greek/Roman and Hindu Pantheons all exist?
Do Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy exist?

If the default position is belief then all of the above positions must be considered correct until disproven.

Since you've already indicated, correctly, that you cannot prove a negative, then you must believe that all of the above is true.

(20-09-2016 12:11 AM)mrgr8avill Wrote:  Now, is attempting to convert someone to your belief system any better than what Christians do? Maybe - if you believe that your beliefs are better than someone else's. But from a logical/scientific perspective, there's no difference in "pushing" one scientifically unprovable belief structure for another.

No one is pushing atheism. You chose to come here, no one is trying to convert you to atheism. However if you are expressing a belief then we require you to defend that belief. Otherwise, we have no reason to believe it.

(20-09-2016 12:11 AM)mrgr8avill Wrote:  Can a person prove that a particular viewpoint is logically flawed? Yes. Does that mean the can prove that heir own belief structure is correct? No.

Wrong. If you are positing a belief in naturalism, science and require evidence, etc. then you can prove a viewpoint.

A particular viewpoint is very different from a personal belief structure. It would be better if you posted some examples.

(20-09-2016 12:11 AM)mrgr8avill Wrote:  So, in my opinion, the farthest an atheist can go without slipping into hypocrisy is to point out the fallacies of any particular belief structure - that could not extend to advocating for a different one.

The default position is non belief. Until you are taught about a god or any concept, you do not know about it and cannot believe in it.

Once you are taught about something, your brain processes the concept. Beliefs are not chosen, but one is convinced subconsciously by a variety of factors. Evidence or lack thereof, pre-existing prejudices, existing beliefs, etc. all help to determine how we react to new ideas and concepts.

I am stating that I do not believe in any god. If you have proof, then by all means, have at it.

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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