Poll: Is promoting atheism a moral responsibility
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Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
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01-09-2016, 08:55 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 08:45 AM)Pragmatix Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 08:34 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And you would be wrong: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion...erous.html
I have contradictory data, and it's not based on self-reported generosity either:

Muslims and Christians less generous than atheists, study finds:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion...finds.html

Real world data my friends, not some problematic sticker game involving children. Whatever interpretation you have of the sticker game results, are debunked in consideration of real world data when it comes to charitable giving, and participation.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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01-09-2016, 09:11 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 08:50 AM)Pragmatix Wrote:  There's also the fact that atheistic countries have far more generous welfare states than more religious countries.

A generous Welfare state, leads to growth in non-religiousness, not the other way around. They create a condition which makes atheism a viable alternative to religion. As people become less dependent on the communal and social aspects of religion, the more likely their are to be persuaded by the nones position.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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01-09-2016, 09:32 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 09:11 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 08:50 AM)Pragmatix Wrote:  There's also the fact that atheistic countries have far more generous welfare states than more religious countries.

A generous Welfare state, leads to growth in non-religiousness, not the other way around. They create a condition which makes atheism a viable alternative to religion. As people become less dependent on the communal and social aspects of religion, the more likely their are to be persuaded by the nones position.

No, sorry, not buying that. People don't stay theists because of the financial rewards. You can't feign belief simply in order to receive a handout - that's not proper theism.
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01-09-2016, 09:32 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
I have difticulty choosing a "yes" or "no" here.

I take every opportunity that arises to describe myself as a humanist, if not an atheist, but have trouble with any kind of prosetylising. I have a sticker in my car and usevterns like, "I can only comment/answer from a humanistic viewpoint . . ." in any suitable conversation.

Only once have I felt comfortable to say, "Have you ever considered hunanism?" when the other was fed up with religion but felt the need for a recognisable moral "compass". That is the closest I can get to "pushing the message".

Now, if there were more groups actually active in the community that had "atheist" or "humanist" in their titles I would consider this an extremely good thing and join in enthusiastically. None that I know of near me.

That is the best form of positivism we could achieve.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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01-09-2016, 09:36 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 09:32 AM)Pragmatix Wrote:  You can't feign belief simply in order to receive a handout - that's not proper theism.

It worked for Mother Theresa... Drinking Beverage

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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01-09-2016, 09:41 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
Religion may be opiate of the masses but it do not mean that there is some duty to promote atheism. I think that faith is absurd and I don't have much respect for believers but I think that everybody should be free to choose his own way, even if said way is different from my own. This means no evangelizing and spreading the faithlesnes.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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01-09-2016, 09:48 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 08:34 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There's a tendency among atheists to psychologize theists not based on any particular facts, but the distorted imaginations of atheists.

Discussions regarding the distorted imaginations of theists occupy a great deal of space on these forums. All one has to do is look at the daily news as opposed to easily debunked generalizations.

(01-09-2016 08:34 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Most theists are not fatalist, which would be a heresy in regards to Christianity, which advocates for taking care of the poor, the orphan the widow, justice, etc... and calls it's adherents to actively participant in the good, and not act as some bystanders waiting on some God to do this for them.

Sayings like "it's god's will" and reliance on intercessory prayer are a form of fatalism.

While christianity does advocate for the poor, it also exploits them and drains donations and resources from them.

(01-09-2016 08:34 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Those who truly believe this, are not led to do so by reason and logic, but because their attracted to it.

That is over-simplification. Different people act philanthropically for different reasons.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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01-09-2016, 10:00 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 09:48 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Sayings like "it's god's will" and reliance on intercessory prayer are a form of fatalism.

No it's not. People pray on top of doing what they can. Such as the family of the man getting treated for his cancer at the hospital, praying that he recovers, while also undergoing treatment.

Or the one praying for a friend in financial straights, while also taking up a collection box to help him out.

Quote:While christianity does advocate for the poor, it also exploits them and drains donations and resources from them.

Yes, the same way that secular humanism advocates for woman's right, while sexually harassing them at conventions.

Some christians exploit the poor, some christians don't. Some fight tooth and nail for them, often at the risk of their own life, some exploit them for their own financial gain, some sacrifice their all for them.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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01-09-2016, 10:11 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 06:02 AM)Pragmatix Wrote:  Seems to me that theism is a bad thing because it lets humanity off the hook for taking care of eachother/the world. Theists can just say "It's God's will" or "God will care for them/it" whenever an issue arises. People need to fight for what they believe in and theism allows people to simply let the imaginary sky daddy do the work. It's lazy. Ergo I think it's a moral duty to promote atheism - to try and convert as many theists into atheists as possible. Thoughts?

I don't think so. I don't think anyone should promote atheism because it is nothing but a lack of belief. What one should promote if one chooses to is rationality. That would truly change the world for the better and I think it is in everyone's rational self interest to do so. But, it's certainly not a moral responsibility. I don't believe there are any moral duties. The highest moral purpose of anyone's life is his own success and happiness. Promoting reason is fully consistent with that purpose.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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01-09-2016, 10:40 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 06:56 AM)Banjo Wrote:  At 16 I read Nietzsche and he taught me to form my own morals.

Same age I started reading the crazy bastard.

Übermensch!

#sigh
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