Poll: Is promoting atheism a moral responsibility
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Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
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01-09-2016, 09:20 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 05:19 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  The moral decision is to be strategic, tactical, and EFFECTIVE in opposing the evils of religion. Don't think that being effective is a moral imperative? Then go stand with the people who try to cure cancer with prayer.
The problem with this thinking is that you are really no different to our theistic friends who claim to know the truth and claim it to be their obligation to spread the world, and rid the world of evil.

You are taking this position upon yourself because you have invented a moral obligation for yourself (based on an ideology) and you want to force or influence others into your ideology.

Just because a person doesn't support your stance it doesn't mean that they support the opposition either. This is a Bush-ism (you are either for us or you are against us). Which is a highly aggressive warmongering stance.

I have the view that prayer is useless nonsense. BUT, if some stranger wants to pray for the recovery of another stranger, well, that's none of my business. I won't interfere. I am not of the position that I know best and everyone must come to align with my position. I am happy for people to be different as long as they aren't trying to impose their position onto me.

I certainly do not support your morally driven crusade, in fact, I see this as a great example why "moral" concepts are dangerous. The self-righteous people lose their acceptance of other people's autonomy, they lose their acceptance of diversity, and rather than to have an interest in diversity they seek to control and get others to conform.
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01-09-2016, 09:42 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 06:59 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Side stepping the whole "moral responsibility" aspect of the question I'd still say no not atheism its self. Rather I'd say promote rationality, the scientific method, and critical thinking. Atheism is an organic end result of these three and by focusing on them we indirectly promote atheism as well as countless other positive things, where as promoting atheism without those things is largely useless.

I think that's the most important thing right there. If people have the tools, they're more equipped to make an educated choice. At least then, they're actually choosing instead of being force fed something. If they still choose theism (I sure did), then they have a better shot of ending up in a less intense, less preachy version of theism.
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02-09-2016, 12:12 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
It's not my job to tell folks what to believe.

I will happily tell someone to back the fuck up, though. Not out of moral imperative, but simply for feeling that my back ain't your doormat.
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02-09-2016, 01:09 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 06:02 AM)Pragmatix Wrote:  Thoughts?

I voted NO. I absolutely detest the promotional efforts of bible-bashers banging on my front door at all hours of the day and night. So why would I choose to lecture them on the logic, science, and humanistic benefits of atheism—or try to "deconvert" them?

And I have to disagree with your assertion that religion lets people "off the hook for taking care of each other/the world ". Religion-based organisations the world over help people in all sorts of desperate situations such as much-needed hospitals and schools; during fire and flood disasters; drugs for sick kids in Africa; emergency accommodation for refugees; battered wife refuges and childhood fostering etc.

For one, The Salvation Army here in Australia is probably the major source of care and comfort for down-and-out Aussies; street kids, the homeless elderly, drug addicts, and alcoholics etc.

IMHO, it's not an appropriate atheist "attitude" to tar all theists with the same inhumanity brush as you do.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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02-09-2016, 01:43 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
I think the then pope telling Africans condoms cause aids wasn't a great help.

The schooling comes with a price, as does the medicine. Catholicism or some kind of religion based BS. That to me is a charge.

So, what are their real motives eh?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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02-09-2016, 03:23 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(02-09-2016 01:43 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I think the then pope telling Africans condoms cause aids wasn't a great help.

The schooling comes with a price, as does the medicine. Catholicism or some kind of religion based BS. That to me is a charge.

So, what are their real motives eh?
Well, yeah, not to mention they won't hire gay teachers, they fire female teacher for getting pregnant out of wedlock etc, they won't give abortions or morning after pill or ivf treatment in their hospitals, if they do do an abortion they damn well cut out a healthy fallopian tube (which ought to be seen as medical negligence). On the one hand they behave nice if you are to their liking and on the other hand they behave rather nasty and discriminate if you don't.
They seem to be able to get away with much more than what most businesses and organisations in otherwise liberal countries can get away with.
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02-09-2016, 01:53 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 09:20 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 05:19 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  The moral decision is to be strategic, tactical, and EFFECTIVE in opposing the evils of religion. Don't think that being effective is a moral imperative? Then go stand with the people who try to cure cancer with prayer.
The problem with this thinking is that you are really no different to our theistic friends who claim to know the truth and claim it to be their obligation to spread the world, and rid the world of evil.

You are taking this position upon yourself because you have invented a moral obligation for yourself (based on an ideology) and you want to force or influence others into your ideology.

Just because a person doesn't support your stance it doesn't mean that they support the opposition either. This is a Bush-ism (you are either for us or you are against us). Which is a highly aggressive warmongering stance.

I have the view that prayer is useless nonsense. BUT, if some stranger wants to pray for the recovery of another stranger, well, that's none of my business. I won't interfere. I am not of the position that I know best and everyone must come to align with my position. I am happy for people to be different as long as they aren't trying to impose their position onto me.

I certainly do not support your morally driven crusade, in fact, I see this as a great example why "moral" concepts are dangerous. The self-righteous people lose their acceptance of other people's autonomy, they lose their acceptance of diversity, and rather than to have an interest in diversity they seek to control and get others to conform.

... if there is a connection between this post and what I wrote, it is too incoherent for me to tease out, much less respond to. So I'm just going to walk away from it.
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02-09-2016, 02:29 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
Last I checked, moral responsibilities only exist in fairytale land.
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02-09-2016, 02:42 PM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2016 03:38 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 04:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 04:19 PM)Banjo Wrote:  I've seen many families pray in hospital and lose their loved one. (sigh) Too many times.

I have said it before. I noticed those who were more religious died faster. I think it is because they believed they would continue to live in an afterlife. An oxymoron if ever I heard one.

That makes me curious. Do we have a thread somewhere comparing the suicide rates of atheists to genpop and religimous? We should.

Here is a study G-man. Apparently non-affiliated are more prone to suicide.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15569904 Undecided

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.

METHOD:
Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS:
Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS:
Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.

Edit: Link to full text http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full...61.12.2303

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-09-2016, 02:46 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(02-09-2016 02:42 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 04:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  That makes me curious. Do we have a thread somewhere comparing the suicide rates of atheists to genpop and religimous? We should.

Here is a study G-man. Apparently non-affiliated are more prone to suicide.

Thanks! Not what I expected. Thumbsup

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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