Poll: Is promoting atheism a moral responsibility
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Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
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02-09-2016, 02:50 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(02-09-2016 01:53 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  ... if there is a connection between this post and what I wrote, it is too incoherent for me to tease out, much less respond to. So I'm just going to walk away from it.

Hey, that's my job. As when I completely misunderstood Girly's post earlier. Smile

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02-09-2016, 02:52 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(02-09-2016 02:42 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 04:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  That makes me curious. Do we have a thread somewhere comparing the suicide rates of atheists to genpop and religimous? We should.

Here is a study G-man. Apparently non-affiliated are more prone to suicide.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15569904 Undecided

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.

METHOD:
Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS:
Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS:
Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.

But isn't suicide also seen as a sin in some faiths? A sin that would keep them out of the heaven they believe in. Couldn't that be a factor?

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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02-09-2016, 02:58 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(02-09-2016 02:52 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(02-09-2016 02:42 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Here is a study G-man. Apparently non-affiliated are more prone to suicide.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15569904 Undecided

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.

METHOD:
Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS:
Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS:
Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.

But isn't suicide also seen as a sin in some faiths? A sin that would keep them out of the heaven they believe in. Couldn't that be a factor?

I had the same thought. In cases where suicide is a reasonable option (terminal illness, for example), an atheist might have less resistance to going ahead with it, because they don't have the fear that it will send them to Hell.
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02-09-2016, 02:59 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(02-09-2016 02:52 PM)Anjele Wrote:  [
But isn't suicide also seen as a sin in some faiths? A sin that would keep them out of the heaven they believe in. Couldn't that be a factor?

Indeed. Which kind of cancels out the idea of free will.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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02-09-2016, 03:05 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(02-09-2016 02:52 PM)Anjele Wrote:  But isn't suicide also seen as a sin in some faiths? A sin that would keep them out of the heaven they believe in. Couldn't that be a factor?

Yup. I think that was their point "After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts."

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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02-09-2016, 03:11 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(02-09-2016 03:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(02-09-2016 02:52 PM)Anjele Wrote:  But isn't suicide also seen as a sin in some faiths? A sin that would keep them out of the heaven they believe in. Couldn't that be a factor?

Yup. I think that was their point "After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts."

Not sure if I buy the 'lower aggression level' concept. Just listening to a clip of a screaming preacher makes me twitchy because it can be so aggressive and hate-filled. Other things too make me wonder about the accuracy of lower aggression. Lots of religious excuses out there for beating kids and wives and killing people... Consider

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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02-09-2016, 03:22 PM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(02-09-2016 03:11 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(02-09-2016 03:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Yup. I think that was their point "After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts."

Not sure if I buy the 'lower aggression level' concept. Just listening to a clip of a screaming preacher makes me twitchy because it can be so aggressive and hate-filled. Other things too make me wonder about the accuracy of lower aggression. Lots of religious excuses out there for beating kids and wives and killing people... Consider

Here's the criteria they used for aggression. "Lifetime aggression, hostility, and impulsivity were measured with the Brown-Goodwin Aggression Inventory, Buss-Durkee Hostility Inventory, and the Barratt Impulsivity Scale." Whatever the hell that means.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-09-2016, 01:05 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(02-09-2016 02:59 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(02-09-2016 02:52 PM)Anjele Wrote:  [
But isn't suicide also seen as a sin in some faiths? A sin that would keep them out of the heaven they believe in. Couldn't that be a factor?

Indeed. Which kind of cancels out the idea of free will.

The very notion of Hell, where you will be punished in agony for all eternity if you do not abide the Christian god's will, is a direct refutation of any free-will apologetics laid by Christians.

If a robber holds a gun to your head and you give him your wallet, it's not called a "donation" -- it's called a crime. By Christian logic, an armed robber should be found not-guilty, because his victim chose earthly sacrifice over a bullet to the head.

Nonsense, I say. There is no free will when one's "soul" is held hostage.
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03-09-2016, 05:55 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 06:02 AM)Pragmatix Wrote:  Seems to me that theism is a bad thing because it lets humanity off the hook for taking care of eachother/the world. Theists can just say "It's God's will" or "God will care for them/it" whenever an issue arises. People need to fight for what they believe in and theism allows people to simply let the imaginary sky daddy do the work. It's lazy. Ergo I think it's a moral duty to promote atheism - to try and convert as many theists into atheists as possible. Thoughts?
"Convert" to atheism??? No. One of the main issues with religion is that it forces its own ideals down peoples throats. We should promote reason and education but evangelism is no no.

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03-09-2016, 06:14 AM
RE: Is it a moral responsibility to promote atheism?
(01-09-2016 09:20 PM)Stevil Wrote:  [...] I have the view that prayer is useless nonsense. BUT, if some stranger wants to pray for the recovery of another stranger, well, that's none of my business. I won't interfere. I am not of the position that I know best and everyone must come to align with my position.

Yes, it should be your business. Particularly if those prayers are falsely reassuring the unwell person, who accepts them as legitimate, and doesn't therefore seek professional medical intervention. People have been known to be suffering from cancers and who've had churchgoers repeatedly pray for their recovery. Because they too were people of faith they believed in the purported effectiveness of intercessory prayer, and... subsequently died.

And it's not simply a matter of you "knowing best" in this kind of scenario. You have science supporting your (possible) intervention, therefore—assuming you're acquainted with the sufferer—you should make your views known for their benefit, and as a matter of morality.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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