Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
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02-06-2013, 09:16 AM
RE: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
Yes, it's very egotistical to think that Jesus would die for you, especially since it's clear that he died for everyone (granting that his existence and death are true).

Below is a YouTube video about such egotism, but it addresses the deeper issue -- why would anyone even want Jesus to die in their place? Everything we know about justice suggests that criminals should pay for their own crimes, otherwise the penalty is pointless. And why would we think that God's wrath is important here, rather than the person who is actually harmed?




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02-06-2013, 10:31 AM
RE: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
(02-06-2013 09:16 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  Yes, it's very egotistical to think that Jesus would die for you, especially since it's clear that he died for everyone (granting that his existence and death are true).

It's equally clear to me that Jesus is little more than a parable created by Paul. That there is no "salvation paradigm," but rather something of a marketing ploy.

Which would answer the OP as "no."

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02-06-2013, 11:57 AM
RE: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
(01-06-2013 05:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-06-2013 04:20 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Yes, it's a desire to feel special because your made to feel like filth without someone dying for you. You're so horrible that you can't even pay for your own sins which we've made up for you to feel guilty about.


Or so I've heard. Big Grin


Don't you think that argument would carry more weight coming from a religious person? Consider

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02-06-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
I am.
If someone else thinks they die for something outside themselves, that's up to them. And yet, if they think I also die for that something outside of them, they think me egotistical and arrogant when I verbally advise them a plan of personal intercourse. Dodgy Laughat

I die for myself because of myself. I am. If there was a Jesus, he was atheist.

But yea - I defer to the prophet. Shy

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03-06-2013, 10:56 AM
RE: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
(31-05-2013 12:14 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

No, it is simply an acknowledgement of the fact that we are so sinful we can't do anything to save ourselves. What is egotistical is to believe that we can live a good enough life so that we will deserve to enter heaven.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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03-06-2013, 11:47 AM
RE: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
(03-06-2013 10:56 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(31-05-2013 12:14 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

No, it is simply an acknowledgement of the fact that we are so sinful we can't do anything to save ourselves. What is egotistical is to believe that we can live a good enough life so that we will deserve to enter heaven.

No, what is egotistical is to believe there is a heaven to go to.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-06-2013, 09:44 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2013 10:35 PM by wisergeek.)
RE: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
When I was a believer there were many times when I debated that with myself, especially when I was giving prayer for the meal I was eating while a few hundred were dying of starvation while I was eating the food I had. My new self thinks it is a total egotist.

Here are a few quotes on it that I enjoy.

I don’t believe in eternal life if by this we mean the unending existence of an egoic self capable of belief or disbelief. I do not believe that people are saved or condemned by God, and, if God were in the saving and condemning business the criteria God would use for making the distinction would not be based on belief but on behavior. - Rabbi Rami Shapiro

It seems to me that prayer is simply an expression of egoic desire: we pray to get what we want and avoid what we don’t want. Because we don’t always get what we want and yet cannot give up on the idea that we could get what we want we invent the notion that God always answers our prayers but not necessarily by giving us what we want. - Rabbi Rami Shapiro

First I don’t believe that love, even God’s love, necessitates the murder of one’s child. Second, I don’t believe that God has a son. Third, I don’t believe in eternal life if by this we mean the unending existence of an egoic self capable of belief or disbelief. - Rabbi Rami Shapiro

We must question the logic of an all-knowing and all-powerful God who creates faulty humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. - Gene Roddenberry

Jesus dying for me is a guilt trip - Bishop John Shelby Spong

Greetings carbon-based bipeds. - Arthur Clarke
The stars died so you could be here today. - Lawrence Krauss
Mathematics is the language of nature. - Lawrence Krauss
I care to live only to entice people to look at Nature's loveliness. - John Muir
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06-06-2013, 01:54 PM
RE: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
(03-06-2013 10:56 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(31-05-2013 12:14 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

No, it is simply an acknowledgement of the fact that we are so sinful we can't do anything to save ourselves. What is egotistical is to believe that we can live a good enough life so that we will deserve to enter heaven.

But I don't want an eternity in Heaven. Weeping

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06-06-2013, 01:54 PM
RE: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
(02-06-2013 10:31 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(02-06-2013 09:16 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  Yes, it's very egotistical to think that Jesus would die for you, especially since it's clear that he died for everyone (granting that his existence and death are true).

It's equally clear to me that Jesus is little more than a parable created by Paul. That there is no "salvation paradigm," but rather something of a marketing ploy.

Which would answer the OP as "no."

Thanks for this.

I do not agree with your Paul comment although it is closer to the truth than what Christians believe.

Here is why my belief is different.

http://caesarsmessiah.com/blog/2011/04/c...hn-hudson/

Just finished reading it and found it compelling.

Regards
DL
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06-06-2013, 02:01 PM
RE: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
(03-06-2013 10:56 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(31-05-2013 12:14 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

No, it is simply an acknowledgement of the fact that we are so sinful we can't do anything to save ourselves. What is egotistical is to believe that we can live a good enough life so that we will deserve to enter heaven.

Hardly scriptural friend. This says that I do not have to sell my soul to Satan and embrace human sacrifice the way you have.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

There are also a lot of quotes that say God prefers repentance to sacrifice and that we are all responsible for our own sins.

You have just cherry picket and embrace what will send you to hell.

Regards
DL
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