Is it me or are they pulling it out of their respective asses.
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12-01-2012, 10:56 AM
RE: Is it me or are they pulling it out of their respective asses.
You're definitely on to something. I think a lot of these people use flowery language and a ton of abstruse references to conceal the fact that many of their ideas are post-hoc rationalizations. I see it especially often in the philosophy of religion (from the theist camp, obviously), but also in ethics from the so-called "new natural lawyers," a gang of Catholic philosophers trying to resurrect Thomistic natural law theory, e.g. John Finnis, Germain Grisez, and Robert George. It's heavy on the hand-waving a quoting of ancient philosophers and light on actual argumentation (oh, and forget about evidence!) In fact, lately they've been publishing their crap in law reviews and Christian studies journals, as I suspect they know they'd be destroyed in the actual ethics journals.
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12-01-2012, 10:59 AM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2012 11:23 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Is it me or are they pulling it out of their respective asses.
Plainspeak and laymen's is a lost art form, IMO.

If your audience can't understand you clearly, then you're a failure as a communicator which causes you to be a failure for whatever you're trying to argue.

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12-01-2012, 11:19 AM
 
RE: Is it me or are they pulling it out of their respective asses.
(12-01-2012 10:59 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Plainspeak and laymen's is a lost art form, IMO.

If your audience can't understand you clearly, the you're a failure as a communicator which causes you to be a failure for whatever you're trying to argue.

Agreed..which is why i love Sam Harris.

Truth be told, Dawkin's "THe God D" was pretty much lost on me. I found the technical manual for my new TV more inviting.

Dan Barker is exceptionally accessable.

D
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12-01-2012, 11:24 AM
RE: Is it me or are they pulling it out of their respective asses.
(12-01-2012 11:19 AM)Denicio Wrote:  
(12-01-2012 10:59 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Plainspeak and laymen's is a lost art form, IMO.

If your audience can't understand you clearly, the you're a failure as a communicator which causes you to be a failure for whatever you're trying to argue.

Agreed..which is why i love Sam Harris.

Truth be told, Dawkin's "THe God D" was pretty much lost on me. I found the technical manual for my new TV more inviting.

Dan Barker is exceptionally accessable.

D

How far did you get in the God Delusion? I found it slow going for the first 100 pages or so. I kept yelling at the book "Yeah, yeah, get to the point!". It was quite good after it listened to me. Dodgy

I've read it again, and it was better the second time, and the third.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-01-2012, 11:30 AM
RE: Is it me or are they pulling it out of their respective asses.
(12-01-2012 11:24 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-01-2012 11:19 AM)Denicio Wrote:  
(12-01-2012 10:59 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Plainspeak and laymen's is a lost art form, IMO.

If your audience can't understand you clearly, the you're a failure as a communicator which causes you to be a failure for whatever you're trying to argue.

Agreed..which is why i love Sam Harris.

Truth be told, Dawkin's "THe God D" was pretty much lost on me. I found the technical manual for my new TV more inviting.

Dan Barker is exceptionally accessable.

D

How far did you get in the God Delusion? I found it slow going for the first 100 pages or so. I kept yelling at the book "Yeah, yeah, get to the point!". It was quite good after it listened to me. Dodgy

I've read it again, and it was better the second time, and the third.

lol I thought I was the only one... although, I still need to read it a second time.

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12-01-2012, 11:49 AM
RE: Is it me or are they pulling it out of their respective asses.
(12-01-2012 12:51 AM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  Am i reading too much into this or am i on to something here?

Nope. You are spot on.
When boiled down to the nuts and bolts, the theist cannot come up with any rational thought to convey HOW they get to their weird conclusions.
They just babel on with happy sounding fluff.
Note the origin and definition of the word "Babel" and how it applies to theologians poorly constructed arguments of today.
Kinda says something doesn't it?
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12-01-2012, 02:15 PM
RE: Is it me or are they pulling it out of their respective asses.
I have another very annoying guy:

There is a muslim guy walking the streets of Dublin, I saw him on youtube tons of times and I saw him at the central post office lots of times. He gives weird speeches and he talks without comma or period.
It is incredible. He talks so fast that you nearly miss the bullshit he says. He throws in quotes and book pages and titles and names like a crazy man. Not even sure that he really knows these, I think he just does it to sound like he knows things.
If you try to argue with him he will not let you finish a sentence but interrupt you in the middle of your thought and spill out more quotes and book titles.

I find him so freaking annoying! Let me see if I find him real fast
-- oh here the name: Hamza Tzortzis
and the video:



yes, the guy in the backround, the one that looks like AronRa, that's really AronRa.
This took place at last years Atheist Convention in Dublin Ireland and he was speaking there.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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12-01-2012, 02:55 PM
 
RE: Is it me or are they pulling it out of their respective asses.
(12-01-2012 11:24 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-01-2012 11:19 AM)Denicio Wrote:  
(12-01-2012 10:59 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Plainspeak and laymen's is a lost art form, IMO.

If your audience can't understand you clearly, the you're a failure as a communicator which causes you to be a failure for whatever you're trying to argue.

Agreed..which is why i love Sam Harris.

Truth be told, Dawkin's "THe God D" was pretty much lost on me. I found the technical manual for my new TV more inviting.

Dan Barker is exceptionally accessable.

D

How far did you get in the God Delusion? I found it slow going for the first 100 pages or so. I kept yelling at the book "Yeah, yeah, get to the point!". It was quite good after it listened to me. Dodgy

I've read it again, and it was better the second time, and the third.

I "Labored" thru the whole damn book. I have a stack of books waiting to be read now so rereading it is low on the priority. I am curretnly in the middle of 'Godless' by Dan Barker which is awesome. I loved his 'Loosing faith in Faith'. Ehrmans's Jesus Inturrupted is next in line for a read.

D
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12-01-2012, 03:00 PM
RE: Is it me or are they pulling it out of their respective asses.
(12-01-2012 02:15 PM)Leela Wrote:  I have another very annoying guy:

There is a muslim guy walking the streets of Dublin, I saw him on youtube tons of times and I saw him at the central post office lots of times. He gives weird speeches and he talks without comma or period.
It is incredible. He talks so fast that you nearly miss the bullshit he says. He throws in quotes and book pages and titles and names like a crazy man. Not even sure that he really knows these, I think he just does it to sound like he knows things.
If you try to argue with him he will not let you finish a sentence but interrupt you in the middle of your thought and spill out more quotes and book titles.

I find him so freaking annoying! Let me see if I find him real fast
-- oh here the name: Hamza Tzortzis
and the video:



yes, the guy in the backround, the one that looks like AronRa, that's really AronRa.
This took place at last years Atheist Convention in Dublin Ireland and he was speaking there.

Candidate for AbdelZ IRL?
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12-01-2012, 03:03 PM
 
RE: Is it me or are they pulling it out of their respective asses.
(12-01-2012 02:15 PM)Leela Wrote:  I have another very annoying guy:

There is a muslim guy walking the streets of Dublin, I saw him on youtube tons of times and I saw him at the central post office lots of times. He gives weird speeches and he talks without comma or period.
It is incredible. He talks so fast that you nearly miss the bullshit he says. He throws in quotes and book pages and titles and names like a crazy man. Not even sure that he really knows these, I think he just does it to sound like he knows things.
If you try to argue with him he will not let you finish a sentence but interrupt you in the middle of your thought and spill out more quotes and book titles.

I find him so freaking annoying! Let me see if I find him real fast
-- oh here the name: Hamza Tzortzis
and the video:



yes, the guy in the backround, the one that looks like AronRa, that's really AronRa.
This took place at last years Atheist Convention in Dublin Ireland and he was speaking there.

Sounds like our old buddy AbdelZ.
Now i am not gonna make any fans with this comment, but AronRa is INDEED a smart guy, well spoken and fun to listen to...but the LOOK? When i FIRST saw him i my kneejerk reaction was to wonder if this guy deconverted from an Alister Crowley satanic cult. When i think of wizards and worlocks...the look in my head...well Ole Aaron posses.
We are an A/V society and 1st impressions do count. I think he 'look' hurts him more than helps him...that thats my 'Personal Jackass Opinion'. Sounds superficial and petty? You bet. I come from the tradational fundamentalist background and if he were to show up in a place for a debate....and honest debate...he would have lost from the very beginning. Aaron is brilliant, far more brilliant than little ole me. I just dont 'get' the look.

Oh well, there ole Denicio and his larger than life opinion!
D
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