Is it naive to find mysticism and mystery in the universe?
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24-02-2014, 01:05 PM
RE: Is it naive to find mysticism and mystery in the universe?
No. You can think of things how ever you wish to think of them.

Who would I be to judge over your feelings of awe and the resulting assosiations you make.

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24-02-2014, 01:06 PM
RE: Is it naive to find mysticism and mystery in the universe?
(24-02-2014 01:05 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  No. You can think of things how ever you wish to think of them.

Who would I be to judge over your feelings of awe and the resulting assosiations you make.

I'd agree with the mystery aspect, but you have to admit that the idea of mysticism implants a little extra that to the unknown world that didn't need to be there

It's only a debate if both parties are willing to let each other's opinions change their own.
If you aren't willing to change in light of learning more about what you fight for, what the hell are you doing expecting the other party to want to change?
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24-02-2014, 01:22 PM (This post was last modified: 24-02-2014 06:50 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Is it naive to find mysticism and mystery in the universe?
I've always wondered if the experiences of "awe and wonder" are related to fear. Probably not, but it's not a "religious" thing.
http://www.amazon.com/Wonder-Rainbow-Aes...0674955625

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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24-02-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: Is it naive to find mysticism and mystery in the universe?


The Supernatural:

Unfalsifiable
Undisciplined
Unacceptable



What if we solved all our problems this way? Late paying the rent? Just tell your landlord that you paid him with supermoney, which is better than money, but he just can't see it right now.


Science is the best method we have of interrogating the universe. That which is believed without science is purely the highest form of speculation known to man. Whether this be your Religion and/or your Faith, you are believing in things that go directly against science or do not use it, and therefore logic as we know it. You are not only going against it, you're not even using science when you blindly equivocate unexplained phenomenon with this poor excuse of an attempt of an answer which is the supernatural. There is a gap in our understanding and these people like to use the supernatural to fill it in. What happens to their "explanation" when the gap closes?

I'm starting to get the feeling that whatever we do not understand yet is deemed The Supernatural.


And yes. It is pure naivety, ignorance, and wishful thinking to why people believe in the supernatural for things beyond their comprehension. You have to do some next level dishonest mental gymnastics to get around logic to explain logic, which doesn't even fucking make sense...


I believe that natures imagination is so much better than humans, it's never going to let us relax!

Everyday is judgement day. Use your judgement, use reason.
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24-02-2014, 07:00 PM
RE: Is it naive to find mysticism and mystery in the universe?
Has anyone ever read Spinoza's work at all? He was excommunicated for his beliefs back then (17th-century), and there is ongoing belief about whether or not he is an atheist. He writes about "God," but the God he writes about is totally natural. For example, he argues that God cannot be "supernatural" i.e. ontologically distinct from the world if he created the "natural" world.

Anyway, I have taken to thinking of Spinoza as a thoroughly natural mystic. I don't think mysticism depends on belief in supernaturalism. Mysticism is experiential, and these kinds of experiences are possible, I believe, merely in the relationship between our natural minds and the natural world.
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24-02-2014, 07:18 PM
RE: Is it naive to find mysticism and mystery in the universe?
I argue this with a friend who has dropped theism but has embraced "whatever crackpot theory there is going on the internet that appeals to him ism".

Skeptics/atheists/sane people. Have the same awe feeling, they just don't bullshit to themselves about having all the answers.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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24-02-2014, 09:35 PM
RE: Is it naive to find mysticism and mystery in the universe?
Mystery is good. Mysticism can SUCK MY BALLS.
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27-02-2014, 06:34 PM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2014 06:37 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Is it naive to find mysticism and mystery in the universe?
Bah. Who needs the supernatural when you got quantum physics. Tongue

How the Hippies Saved Physics: Science, Counterculture, and the Quantum Revival

(24-02-2014 07:00 PM)NitPickPocketeer Wrote:  Has anyone ever read Spinoza's work at all?

I have and like his perspective. Baruch and chippy here are pretty much experts on his philosophy. Hell, Baruch even went so far as to name his virtual persona after him.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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27-02-2014, 08:05 PM
RE: Is it naive to find mysticism and mystery in the universe?
I think the discovery of the inner-workings of the universe may prove to be more mystical than our notions currently claim.

The future gives way to magic with physical properties.
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27-02-2014, 08:20 PM
RE: Is it naive to find mysticism and mystery in the universe?
No, but it is naive to immediately assume that anything mysterious requires an explanation that transcends a naturalistic one.

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