Is it not enough to be Pro-Choice?
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22-02-2014, 08:37 AM
RE: Is it not enough to be Pro-Choice?
There was another thread on this forum where the point about the fairnes of a system where guy gets no say at all in whether she keeps the baby, but if she decides to keep the kid he is on the hook for child support. I'm always amazed about how cavalier and militant some women have become about their "right" to terminate a pregnancy, as if it impacts them and them alone. I realize they are the one carrying the child but that is, in my opinion, a very small part of the equation. So you carry a baby for 9 months, it's not like it's the extreme physical hardship it's been made out to be. That is not meant to belittle the experience or say it's nothing, but, to me, it's not a reason to take your partner completely out of the equation.

As for your friend's attitude, I see it as affirmation that you have won the argument. When someone can not refute your positions with logic and results to name calling and dissmissiveness, you've won the debate.

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22-02-2014, 08:06 PM
RE: Is it not enough to be Pro-Choice?
Abortion should be legal but one should avoid going that far in the first place.
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22-02-2014, 08:12 PM
RE: Is it not enough to be Pro-Choice?
Personal opinion: If a woman is in a relationship and finds herself pregnant, she has a moral obligation to discuss the decision with her partner. The final decision; however, lies with her regardless of his opinion.

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22-02-2014, 08:31 PM
RE: Is it not enough to be Pro-Choice?
(22-02-2014 08:12 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Personal opinion: If a woman is in a relationship and finds herself pregnant, she has a moral obligation to discuss the decision with her partner. The final decision; however, lies with her regardless of his opinion.

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22-02-2014, 09:29 PM (This post was last modified: 22-02-2014 09:33 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Is it not enough to be Pro-Choice?
Sounds to me like she forgets that it requires both of you to make the parasite growing in her belly and that you are both equally responsible for it. When did people think relationships would not include discussion and compromise? Seems like you should both discuss it before anything is done -- but in the end, it is her decision because (if she disagrees with you enough) she can leave and have it done anyway.

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22-02-2014, 11:25 PM
RE: Is it not enough to be Pro-Choice?
Quote:he supplied a half of the gametes here after all,

Is he going to lug it around for nine months?

Let's not pretend there is an equal burden here.

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23-02-2014, 04:47 AM
RE: Is it not enough to be Pro-Choice?
(22-02-2014 11:25 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:he supplied a half of the gametes here after all,

Is he going to lug it around for nine months?

Let's not pretend there is an equal burden here.

No, but to me that is almost entirely irrelevant when it comes to the responsibility of both parties. They both know what makes babies and they did it -- now it is time for a fair, rational discussion about the future of the developing child.

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23-02-2014, 06:05 AM
RE: Is it not enough to be Pro-Choice?
This lady is pretty much a bitch.

As far as the issue goes, there are two issues: The baby and the woman's body.

Possible problems regarding the baby:

She wants it, he doesn't, he wants it, she doesn't. If the baby is born at all, it is the responsibility of both parents. If they make a contract that states otherwise and both agree, it can be the sole responsibility for one person. Such a contract should hold up even if one partner changes their mind later.

Possible issues regarding her body:

Some women thrive on pregnancy, some abhor it. For some it is hard work, some breeze through it. All of them will face considerable pain and unwellness. Whether she wants to act as incubator for a baby she doesn't want is up to her. If she does not want to carry, and he really wants the baby, they could negotiate. He could offer physical and monetary support and whatever the two agree to. A contract could be made here also. But if she just recoils from the idea of being used as incubator, it is her right to say no.

The trouble is that often both parties enter this discussion with a lot of tension and emotions fly high. Then they should likely meet with a third party who helps them sort things without going over the deep end.

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23-02-2014, 06:09 AM
RE: Is it not enough to be Pro-Choice?
(23-02-2014 06:05 AM)Dom Wrote:  This lady is pretty much a bitch.

As far as the issue goes, there are two issues: The baby and the woman's body.

Possible problems regarding the baby:

She wants it, he doesn't, he wants it, she doesn't. If the baby is born at all, it is the responsibility of both parents. If they make a contract that states otherwise and both agree, it can be the sole responsibility for one person. Such a contract should hold up even if one partner changes their mind later.

Possible issues regarding her body:

Some women thrive on pregnancy, some abhor it. For some it is hard work, some breeze through it. All of them will face considerable pain and unwellness. Whether she wants to act as incubator for a baby she doesn't want is up to her. If she does not want to carry, and he really wants the baby, they could negotiate. He could offer physical and monetary support and whatever the two agree to. A contract could be made here also. But if she just recoils from the idea of being used as incubator, it is her right to say no.

The trouble is that often both parties enter this discussion with a lot of tension and emotions fly high. Then they should likely meet with a third party who helps them sort things without going over the deep end.

Could not have articulated my points better than this.

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23-02-2014, 06:19 AM
RE: Is it not enough to be Pro-Choice?
(23-02-2014 06:09 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(23-02-2014 06:05 AM)Dom Wrote:  This lady is pretty much a bitch.

As far as the issue goes, there are two issues: The baby and the woman's body.

Possible problems regarding the baby:

She wants it, he doesn't, he wants it, she doesn't. If the baby is born at all, it is the responsibility of both parents. If they make a contract that states otherwise and both agree, it can be the sole responsibility for one person. Such a contract should hold up even if one partner changes their mind later.

Possible issues regarding her body:

Some women thrive on pregnancy, some abhor it. For some it is hard work, some breeze through it. All of them will face considerable pain and unwellness. Whether she wants to act as incubator for a baby she doesn't want is up to her. If she does not want to carry, and he really wants the baby, they could negotiate. He could offer physical and monetary support and whatever the two agree to. A contract could be made here also. But if she just recoils from the idea of being used as incubator, it is her right to say no.

The trouble is that often both parties enter this discussion with a lot of tension and emotions fly high. Then they should likely meet with a third party who helps them sort things without going over the deep end.

Could not have articulated my points better than this.

Hey, welcome back!!! Big Grin

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