Is it possible to feel the delusion?
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08-02-2016, 04:13 PM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
(08-02-2016 04:04 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(08-02-2016 04:03 PM)Dom Wrote:  I don't see that as delusional though, just amazing architecture.

Or money and power.

Yep, back in the day churches were the biggest supporters of the arts, they had the money and the power.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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08-02-2016, 05:57 PM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
There is a great passage in Floyd Carlisle's opera "Susannah" (masterpiece IMO) that shows how seductive the atmosphere of a church service is, and how strongly the music and pastor and congregation work together to pull in anyone with doubts. (Check out the second act, the segment around "are you saved from sin").
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08-02-2016, 06:33 PM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
Because I wasn't raised with any concept of god, the two times I went to a church service I found it very depressing. It was so alien to me. The whole thing was bizarre and I was totally out of my element. I was an extremely imaginative child and I recognized immediately that the whole church service was borne from the imagination of (mostly) men. It was theatre with a script, actors and costumes, except this script threatened people who didn't believe the story with a disastrous eternal cast party. One church service I attended was a fundamentalist wedding and I slowly, quietly snuck out in the middle of the wedding vows. I just couldn't stand it.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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08-02-2016, 06:34 PM
Is it possible to feel the delusion?
(08-02-2016 03:57 PM)Banjo Wrote:  There is no god or gods. Get over it and grow up.

I did and I have.

I am glad I'm not the only one who feels the delusion.
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08-02-2016, 07:56 PM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
I wasn't born a Catholic, but became one after marrying my wife. So, I have attended masses, both pre-deconversion and still attend mass post-deconversion. It's amazing how different the experience is.

Before I was intimidated by the whole thing. First, the priest who, I assumed, must be an amazing man by the way the parishioners revered him. Then there was all the rituals of kneeling, genuflecting, crossing yourself with holy water, reciting prayers and creeds etc, etc.

Now I go and I feel like I'm surrounded by a bunch of really gullible people listening to a delusional man reciting nonsense. I have to keep myself amused, so my favorite part is where grown adults are earnestly reading passages from the OT. They have no clue what it means but their voice is solemn and reverent. When done, they take a long pause and say "The word of the Lord". And the whole congregation responds in unison "Thanks be to God" --- It's truly a sad sight to behold.

"Why hast thou forsaken me, o deity whose existence I doubt..." - Dr. Sheldon Cooper
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08-02-2016, 08:28 PM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
I was a Christian all my life. I loved the church (was going to be a missionary at one point). I stopped going to church 10 years ago but didn't really see myself as atheist until last year. Went to a funeral of a beloved aunt a few months ago and had some weird feelings. Singing all the songs I'd loved growing up (I sang in Europe with the Baptist Festival Singers when I was 20) and all the comforting words of heaven made me feel connected to everyone, but the rationale side of my brain that kept saying "But god GAVE this young, nonsmoking woman lung cancer just after her grandbaby was born. GOD IS HATEFUL. HE DOESN'T CARE! HE DOESN'T EXIST!" It was weird. But I also kept thinking how I would rather know truth than believe the lie.

Gods don't like people not doing much work. People who aren't busy all the time might start to think.
Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
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08-02-2016, 08:53 PM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
I wasn't raised in a religion, and any time I've been in a church it seemed completely foreign and creepy to me.
The last time was about a year ago for a Catholic funeral. I felt like an observer watching some sort of social experiment. I couldn't get past watching the priest in his crazy getup waving around a fancy smoke-bomb and chanting.
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08-02-2016, 09:55 PM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
(08-02-2016 02:24 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Yes!

I've had it happen a couple of times since moving to Oklahoma but the most extreme one happened at work.

I was having a chat with a co-worker who was known for being a godbot. The conversation wasn't about religion but that never stopped her from turning it into one. We were discussing her recent surgery and I was saying how great it was she did well, when, I kid you not, her eyes glazed over, her head kind of lolled to the side and she started spewing god and jesus stuff as if she was in a trance. It was palpable. The hairs on my neck stood up and I felt like I was watching a mental break of some sort.

Seriously, I was a bit scared. Her delusion had taken possession of her. After a few minutes of rambling she sort of came around and smiled, then just walked off. It was creepy as shit. ShockingSadcryface

You should have started screaming "Devil, BEGONE!!!!!"

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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09-02-2016, 06:18 AM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
(08-02-2016 04:08 PM)carol Wrote:  
(08-02-2016 01:52 PM)musicharmony87 Wrote:  Whenever I am in church, I can feel the delusion. I don't know how I can elaborate more on this. It's like I know this isn't real but all these Christians believe it. Do you ever feel the delusion when anyone talks about God and Jesus?
I love learning new things about neurological biology, and I just found a new book online that I ordered from Barnes and Noble. It is called "The Neuroscience of Religious Experience" through Cambridge University Press, (Patrick McNamara) Books are usually well written when Cambridge University Press produces them. I have not read it yet, (It has not come in the mail yet) but from what I have been reading lately , the religious 'feelings" people have may be biochemically based. Neurotheology proponents believe that religious feelings are caused by the 'feel good" brain chemicals we produce and they are trying to trace the brain pathways to see what the religious experience looks like on a scan, or through blood tests, or looking at pulse rate and heart beat for example. I am interested in learning about this myself, so if you find anything interesting please send a link to me. One researcher takes brain scans of people while they are praying, for example. The basic idea is that people produce "feel good" chemcals in response to group activities, like going to an ice hockey game, a concert or listening to people sing and pray as a group in a church. This delusion you are feeling-could it simply be the feelings people get when in a group of people singing, chanting,and getting excited together?

IMO that is where the answer lies.

But - religion is not the only thing triggering the release of "feel good" chemicals, you can get the same from chocolate or jogging or chanting or any number of things.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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09-02-2016, 06:26 AM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
(08-02-2016 07:56 PM)mgoering Wrote:  I wasn't born a Catholic, but became one after marrying my wife. So, I have attended masses, both pre-deconversion and still attend mass post-deconversion. It's amazing how different the experience is.

Before I was intimidated by the whole thing. First, the priest who, I assumed, must be an amazing man by the way the parishioners revered him. Then there was all the rituals of kneeling, genuflecting, crossing yourself with holy water, reciting prayers and creeds etc, etc.

Now I go and I feel like I'm surrounded by a bunch of really gullible people listening to a delusional man reciting nonsense. I have to keep myself amused, so my favorite part is where grown adults are earnestly reading passages from the OT. They have no clue what it means but their voice is solemn and reverent. When done, they take a long pause and say "The word of the Lord". And the whole congregation responds in unison "Thanks be to God" --- It's truly a sad sight to behold.

They didn't have smart phones back when I used to go to church. If I was going now, I would be watching YouTube and Netflix the whole time or sleeping.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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