Is it possible to feel the delusion?
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09-02-2016, 05:37 PM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
(09-02-2016 05:25 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-02-2016 07:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  When sitting in a grand building with the sun streaming through the stained glass and hearing moving music, I can feel a sense of awe and feel that there is something greater, likely what others are feeling.

Then my rational mind kicks in and I see that the whole setting is designed to create those emotions.

Does that diminish the experience? Or just put it in proper context?

I think it enhances the experience in some ways.

I can gape in awe at a medieval cathedral and consider the motivations of the builders without believing the delusion.


Who is not moved by a sight like this?

[Image: gothic1lrg.jpg]

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-02-2016, 05:39 PM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
(09-02-2016 05:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-02-2016 05:25 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Does that diminish the experience? Or just put it in proper context?

I think it enhances the experience in some ways.

I think so too. We did this. No God required.

#sigh
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09-02-2016, 11:13 PM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2016 11:20 PM by carol.)
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
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09-02-2016, 11:37 PM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2016 11:59 PM by carol.)
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
(09-02-2016 08:06 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  
(09-02-2016 06:18 AM)Dom Wrote:  IMO that is where the answer lies.

But - religion is not the only thing triggering the release of "feel good" chemicals, you can get the same from chocolate or jogging or chanting or any number of things.

Feel good chemicals?
feel good chemicals:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3190564/
http://bigthink.com/going-mental/the-neu...ous-belief
http://www.pnas.org/content/106/12/4876.full
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10-02-2016, 01:24 AM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
I prefer that same buzz you get from feeding off the energy of 80k screaming sports.

I'm sure it's all brain chemical stuff.
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10-02-2016, 02:06 AM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
(10-02-2016 01:24 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  I prefer that same buzz you get from feeding off the energy of 80k screaming sports.

I'm sure it's all brain chemical stuff.

Large scale spectator sport IMO is the new opiate of the people Hobo Well, old I guess too - Romans had it. But just like religion it has special clothing, religious buildings, irrational fervour and scandals.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-02-2016, 02:43 AM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
(09-02-2016 09:56 AM)mgoering Wrote:  
(09-02-2016 06:26 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  They didn't have smart phones back when I used to go to church. If I was going now, I would be watching YouTube and Netflix the whole time or sleeping.

Believe me, I tried that. My wife just gave me a big scowl. From then on, I entertain myself by watching the magic show and critiquing it (and it's audience) in my mind. You know, the same thing you might do while watching a pro wrestling match.

As the saying goes, "A happy wife is a happy life". Enduring one hour a week of torture, in the end pays big dividends, if you know what I mean. Big Grin

"You know, the same thing you might do while watching a pro wrestling match."


Brilliant! I must remember that!Bowing
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10-02-2016, 04:03 AM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
(10-02-2016 02:06 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(10-02-2016 01:24 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  I prefer that same buzz you get from feeding off the energy of 80k screaming sports.

I'm sure it's all brain chemical stuff.

Large scale spectator sport IMO is the new opiate of the people Hobo Well, old I guess too - Romans had it. But just like religion it has special clothing, religious buildings, irrational fervour and scandals.

I don't disagree, I was just speaking more towards that "group high". It's often described as feeling "electric". IMO, it's very similar to the same thing churchies experience when Jesus is tickling their insides.
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10-02-2016, 06:36 AM
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
(08-02-2016 04:08 PM)carol Wrote:  
(08-02-2016 01:52 PM)musicharmony87 Wrote:  Whenever I am in church, I can feel the delusion. I don't know how I can elaborate more on this. It's like I know this isn't real but all these Christians believe it. Do you ever feel the delusion when anyone talks about God and Jesus?
I love learning new things about neurological biology, and I just found a new book online that I ordered from Barnes and Noble. It is called "The Neuroscience of Religious Experience" through Cambridge University Press, (Patrick McNamara) Books are usually well written when Cambridge University Press produces them. I have not read it yet, (It has not come in the mail yet) but from what I have been reading lately , the religious 'feelings" people have may be biochemically based. Neurotheology proponents believe that religious feelings are caused by the 'feel good" brain chemicals we produce and they are trying to trace the brain pathways to see what the religious experience looks like on a scan, or through blood tests, or looking at pulse rate and heart beat for example. I am interested in learning about this myself, so if you find anything interesting please send a link to me. One researcher takes brain scans of people while they are praying, for example. The basic idea is that people produce "feel good" chemcals in response to group activities, like going to an ice hockey game, a concert or listening to people sing and pray as a group in a church. This delusion you are feeling-could it simply be the feelings people get when in a group of people singing, chanting,and getting excited together?

This is almost certainly right. A third of the way through your post, I was thinking "I bet that book says 'dopamine and oxytocin'.". I remember getting that good feeling when I prayed (sometimes). Of course, I've gotten that good feeling from lots of other things, too. It just took me a while to admit that to myself.
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10-02-2016, 07:11 AM (This post was last modified: 10-02-2016 07:28 AM by carol.)
RE: Is it possible to feel the delusion?
(10-02-2016 06:36 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  [quote='carol' pid='943282' dateline='1454969305']

This is almost certainly right. A third of the way through your post, I was thinking "I bet that book says 'dopamine and oxytocin'.". I remember getting that good feeling when I prayed (sometimes). Of course, I've gotten that good feeling from lots of other things, too. It just took me a while to admit that to myself.

I shared a few links above if you are curious, although just correlations that are not statistically significant yet because the sample size too small, there are a lot of these papers about...lots of fun to read if you are a neurobio geek type.
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