Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
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06-12-2015, 01:33 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
It's hilarious because even in the case that something cannot be proved/disproved, that doesn't mean that someone can't still reasonably disbelieve in said thing.

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06-12-2015, 01:48 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(06-12-2015 01:22 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(05-12-2015 07:44 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Fact:

God cannot be proven or disproved.

In exactly the same way that leprechauns cannot be proved or disproved? Tongue

As the proponent for the existence of gods (or the Christian god specifically) the onus of proof is on you to provide empirical evidence for its existence.

If I claim that I can fly, I have to prove it to you by jumping off the roof of a 10-storey building. It's not up to you to disprove that I can fly; the onus is entirely upon me to prove that I can.
Science is a tool to describe what we can perceive. There is much that science doesn't explain as fact, and barely anything that it it can link together as a single cohesive theory on existence that explains all.

So since science can't prove or disprove something it must not be a thing at all? Are you a materialist, and do you one that most scientists are not? All is not strictly physical, or of the strictly physical. This limits the ability to perceive it scientifically, especially when science still has such a long way to go.

Observe the universe and our placement, uniqueness, and potential within it, for it, for the sake of existence in reciprocal giving to existence under the direction of the Creator of that existence, and then say that God can't be real.

Some may claim that we came from chaos.
That's a wild guess, much less credible, or backed. The "theory" of a singular creative force that set all in motion and ultimately has omnipotence over its creation is supported since man was on earth.

People think that the ancients were retarded, when really it is us who have a grand lack of connection to nature, instinct, and reality.
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06-12-2015, 01:54 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(06-12-2015 01:33 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  It's hilarious because even in the case that something cannot be proved/disproved, that doesn't mean that someone can't still reasonably disbelieve in said thing.
Or believe in it.

The thing is that one can attain their needed verification, personally, through utter inner honesty, patience and selflessness or detachment, or looking from the outside, in.

I know people think I sound crazy, but I'm not. There is a Crist consciousness, there is verification. There is Universal Truth.
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06-12-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(06-12-2015 01:54 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 01:33 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  It's hilarious because even in the case that something cannot be proved/disproved, that doesn't mean that someone can't still reasonably disbelieve in said thing.
Or believe in it.

The thing is that one can attain their needed verification, personally, through utter inner honesty, patience and selflessness or detachment, or looking from the outside, in.

I know people think I sound crazy, but I'm not. There is a Crist consciousness, there is verification. There is Universal Truth.

How is it reasonable to believe someone can feed 5,000 people with five loaves of bread and two fish? That's the definition of unreasonable, and that would be a massive understatement.

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06-12-2015, 02:09 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(06-12-2015 01:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Science is a tool to describe what we can perceive. There is much that science doesn't explain as fact, and barely anything that it it can link together as a single cohesive theory on existence that explains all.

Says the guy who doesn't think plasma is physical. Your understanding of science is abysmal so I think I'm safe in ignoring your views on the subject.

Quote:So since science can't prove or disprove something it must not be a thing at all?

No, it just means that it doesn't make sense to believe something for which there is no evidence.

Quote: Are you a materialist, and do you one that most scientists are not?

You have a link to a study that supports that claim or did you just pull that out of your ass?

Quote:All is not strictly physical, or of the strictly physical. This limits the ability to perceive it scientifically, especially when science still has such a long way to go.

Whatever "not strictly physical" is supposed to mean....
Science does have a long way to go, but jumping to conclusions based on what feels right to you is not rational.

Quote:Observe the universe and our placement, uniqueness, and potential within it, for it, for the sake of existence in reciprocal giving to existence under the direction of the Creator of that existence, and then say that God can't be real.

Our placement is the surface of an utterly insignificant planet in the outer reaches of an undistinguished galaxy with no special position in an immense universe. Our uniqueness is not known, neither is our potential. The "for the sake of existence in reciprocal giving to existence under the direction of the Creator of that existence" bit is word salad that may sound meaningful but is just an empty platitude.

Quote:Some may claim that we came from chaos.

Who claims that? It's in some religions, including Christianity under at least some interpretations. I don't know of any atheists that make that claim.

Quote:That's a wild guess, much less credible, or backed. The "theory" of a singular creative force that set all in motion and ultimately has omnipotence over its creation is supported since man was on earth.

The "theory" of a singular creative force is an argument from ignorance. It is taking an unknown and plugging an unquantifiable into the gap in an attempt to assuage that uncomfortable feeling that accompanies not knowing. The idea that it has been accepted for a long time does not support the truth of the claim in any way. You are just fractally wrong.

Quote:People think that the ancients were retarded, when really it is us who have a grand lack of connection to nature, instinct, and reality.

I do not think they were retarded. I think they were ignorant of much that we have learned since then and were doing the best they could. It's the people who want to ignore all that has been discovered and stick with primitive superstitions that are retarding progress and not engaging with reality. Instinct can be a useful tool but it can also be misleading and anybody who trusts it over rational investigation is being willfully blind.

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06-12-2015, 04:59 PM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2015 05:04 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(06-12-2015 01:08 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  And I hate to break the news to you, but anti-theists really are just angry atheists, but they don't represent atheists in general.

Really. how do you know that ?
How many do you actually know ?
Link us to the study/poll that demonstrates that.

Link us to a reference to the 15 % number, sport.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-12-2015, 05:03 PM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2015 05:20 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(06-12-2015 01:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Science is a tool to describe what we can perceive. There is much that science doesn't explain as fact, and barely anything that it it can link together as a single cohesive theory on existence that explains all.


Science has proven a LOT that we can't "perceive", which you wouldn't get since you knw NOTHING about science, as you have demonstrated again and again.

The fact that one method doesn't answer ALL your questions right now, doesn't justify cooking up THE most ridiculous explanation yet "Oh, since I have no other answer, god musta done it".
The fact is, the "god" theory explains nothing. A god that 'exists' MUST and would be participating in a larger reality. Why and how that is REQUIRED, remains unexplained. There is nothing coherent in any definition of any of the gods.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-12-2015, 05:36 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(06-12-2015 01:08 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, anti-theism is not the same as atheism. In fact anti-theists make up only a small handful of atheists, about 15% of atheists.

And I hate to break the news to you, but anti-theists really are just angry atheists, but they don't represent atheists in general.

That percentage, where is it coming from?

Also, that's quite a poor definition of anti-theism. And of course they don't represent atheists in general, they are not supposed to.

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06-12-2015, 05:48 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(06-12-2015 05:03 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 01:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Science is a tool to describe what we can perceive. There is much that science doesn't explain as fact, and barely anything that it it can link together as a single cohesive theory on existence that explains all.


Science has proven a LOT that we can't "perceive", which you wouldn't get since you knw NOTHING about science, as you have demonstrated again and again.

The fact that one method doesn't answer ALL your questions right now, doesn't justify cooking up THE most ridiculous explanation yet "Oh, since I have no other answer, god musta done it".
The fact is, the "god" theory explains nothing. A god that 'exists' MUST and would be participating in a larger reality. Why and how that is REQUIRED, remains unexplained. There is nothing coherent in any definition of any of the gods.
Its odd that you can't see a need for something that unifies everything. Something that has been referenced one way or another from before written history by man, and also gives direction, meaning, and understanding of life on a personal level with utmost gravity is definitely, completely just concocted for ?? You can say that organized religion is flawed, and made of man. But the actual part of the direction of man under God that is in All is undeniable, personal, and constant. The selfless conscience is in All of us from before birth. It is flawed or pushed aside wholly, by upbringing/societal norms/ men of power due to greed. It can be reattained or repaired though affliction, be it seemingly self made or from an "outside" source.
If you have been greedy your whole life, then chances are you may have a very self centered perspective in general. It's really hard to see the bigger picture like that. You can be blind on a cognitive level. That's why I say utter honesty with self through introspection is so important. Even through retrospect or hindsight one can work towards change in self that reflects the knowledge of life itself that they have experienced.

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06-12-2015, 05:52 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(06-12-2015 01:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  If I claim that I can fly, I have to prove it to you by jumping off the roof of a 10-storey building. It's not up to you to disprove that I can fly; the onus is entirely upon me to prove that I can.

So you're not prepared to discuss this simple analogy to proving that your god exists? Why is that?

And some suggested reading for you... Spontaneous creation of the Universe Ex Nihilo. (Longish, but you can skip a fair bit of it.)

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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