Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
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08-12-2015, 09:33 AM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 08:44 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 08:36 AM)Chas Wrote:  Who are these disgruntled white male anti-theists of whom you speak? Is this one of them?

[Image: ayaan-hirsi-ali.jpg]

Or are you once again just blowing smoke out your ass? Consider

Sorry, I forgot the one Allen West.

I also think you forgot that she's not so much an anti-theist, but anti-Islam. In fact she thinks muslims converting to christianity would be a solution.

"In her National Press Club talk, Hirsi Ali admitted that her initial hope for many Muslims was that they would convert—to Christianity. “Back then I was promoting the idea, if you’re a peace-loving, tolerant Muslim and you want to be religious, why not convert to Christianity?” She confessed to sending “a very naïve letter” to the Pope, imploring him to “capture the hearts and minds of all of these millions of people who are spiritual, in search of redemption.”

http://www.weeklystandard.com/islam-ayaa...cle/918196




It seems as though she once suggested that path. She admits it was naive, even misguided.

And there are many non-white, non-males here who are anti-theist. What do you make of that?
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08-12-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 09:28 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 09:23 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  [Image: f7a76e67a079381334715e3e481886f5.jpg]

To be fair, I've known plenty of non-religious people who couldn't be reasoned with either.

I hadn't assumed that closed-mindedness was limited to the religious. But it is curious that it is so prominent among them.

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08-12-2015, 09:55 AM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 09:02 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Being an atheist is not a requirement to be an anti-theist. You can be a theist and be anti-theist. Anti-theism is better understood when read as "anti-religion". You can believe in a god, but be against organized religion.


Well, there isn’t a organization body, or doctrine of what anti-theism is, all that can be said about them, can be only be based on deriving it from folks who predominately present themselves as such.

While you can be theists and anti-theists, you’re probably not going to find many if any theist who fall into that category. What you will find is perhaps many theists who share with anti-theists the same attitude towards Islam. Anti-theists who are in the pocket of far-right Islamphoebic rhetoric. It’s why folks like Ayan Hirshi Ali, get swallowed up by conservative think tanks, why Sam Harris seems more inclined to endorse the Ben Carson’s and Donald Trumps on the world.

Quote:That's nice, now you just need to realize that anti-theist and angry atheist are not synonymous. One doesn't need to be angry or atheist to be anti-theist.

In the same way that one need not be an angry conservative to be a part of the tea party. But it appears that if you’re an angry atheist, more than likely your also an anti-theist, and if your an angry conservative, than your inclined to be a part of the tea-party.

Of course there’s likely to be outlier, a benign conservative who supports the tea-party, and not even religious, like the billionaire Paul Singer, and perhaps someone like yourself is outlier as well when it comes to anti-theist. Which just says more about you, that does about the tea-party, or anti-theism.

I’m not even too sure what your own anti-theism amounts to, other than nothing more so than a label for your distaste for organized religion. As to what that means in regards to your pro-active behavior, the sort of sentiment and policies you find yourself in support of, that seems all together absent.

Quote:You seem to want anti-theists to be a pointed nose angry group of individuals. You don't seem to care about trying to understand us, what we are about, or why. You continue to misrepresent us, and it's this type of thing that perpetuates a negative image of anti-theism even among atheists.

I think the tea-party, Donald Trump supporters, Islamaphoebes, anti-theists should be painted in negative image, and not because they take issue with Christianity, but how they tend to fuel the same dangerous right wing anti-islam rhetoric that’s take over a large swath of our population. It’s not surprising that anti-theists like Dawkins choose to attack the intentions of a 14 years old kid, or that folks like Harris and Maher tacitly endorse right wing anti-islamic positions. Or why that white dude who shot two innocent muslim kids in their apt, falls under that same label.

The only real difference to me between these conservative christian groups and anti-theist who share similar sentiments, is the latter is more averse to violence than the former, but that line is just a superficial one.

To me if you wanna define yourself as anti-theists, it just means your throwing your hat in with public faces and views of the demographic. A demographic in our age which is disturbing for a variety of reasons.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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08-12-2015, 09:57 AM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2015 11:25 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 10:18 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Show me one place in either article that says the 15% are "just angry atheists".

Youtube.

Anti-theism, is just another outlet for white male disgruntlement, a secular man's alternative to the tea party. It just a subset of atheists, that need something to be angry about, and some group or people to take it out on. If they were white conservative christians, it would be muslims and blacks, since their bourgeois rationalist the target is exclusively the religious.

I'm not conflating this group with atheists, or suggesting that most atheists are angry, in fact anti-theists are a minority of atheists. Their just a part of a larger symptom affecting multiple groups, of folks looking for scapegoats in senseless and frustrating world, that unites the Tea Party, the Mizzou Protestors, Donald Trump Supports, and anti-theists.

Prove it, jackass.

You say you're here to "learn".
It appears you're here because you wish you also were not constrained by your foolish beliefs, but cannot break away from them.
Instead of growing a pair, you hurl nonsense at athests. The person you're really trying to convince is yourself.

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08-12-2015, 10:07 AM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 10:18 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Show me one place in either article that says the 15% are "just angry atheists".

Youtube.

Anti-theism, is just another outlet for white male disgruntlement, a secular man's alternative to the tea party. It just a subset of atheists, that need something to be angry about, and some group or people to take it out on. If they were white conservative christians, it would be muslims and blacks, since their bourgeois rationalist the target is exclusively the religious.

I'm not conflating this group with atheists, or suggesting that most atheists are angry, in fact anti-theists are a minority of atheists. Their just a part of a larger symptom affecting multiple groups, of folks looking for scapegoats in senseless and frustrating world, that unites the Tea Party, the Mizzou Protestors, Donald Trump Supports, and anti-theists.

Huh, where in the article does it say they're angry atheists? and "youtube" is your response? You know you're just dodging with no reaction here?

I looked at both those articles and then followed to the site of those who made the poll. They don't conflate "ANGRY" with Anti-Theist on their stance of the poll at all. Only the articles then you have done that.

It's beyond foolish to even conclude that because there is no stance only of saying anti-theist = angry but strange to at a point conclude that Intellectual atheist or ACTIVIST atheist don't mean angry/actively looking to debate(which is what those articles interpret the meaning as) It's just more terrible assumption filled labeling that isn't even based on any reasonable connection to the terms.

The poll site also acknowledges of course one person could be multiple of these groups at once in reality. It's just a manner of seeing how people would identify, but in earnest I would rather of seen it steer away from the term "intellectual" as I think more would desire flocking to it because of the perception of smartness in saying "intellectual." I think informed, skeptical, scientific, or something more along those lines would be a better concluding data label than intellectual.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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08-12-2015, 10:11 AM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2015 10:16 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 09:33 AM)Machias Wrote:  It seems as though she once suggested that path. She admits it was naive, even misguided.

And there are many non-white, non-males here who are anti-theist. What do you make of that?

I think predominately white male sentiments, catch on to outliers. Even supporters of the confederate flag are not all white, and even have a handful of black folks. The tea-party another such group, has plenty of females, and non-white supporters.

And if you look at the demographics of such group, the racial and gender breakdown, white-male are more likely to be supportive of such sentiments, than other demographics. This is not to blame this on skin color, but rather unique cultural, and social factors, that are present in white western demographics, than non-white demographics, whose histories are still raw from being at the receiving end of such sentiments.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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08-12-2015, 10:18 AM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 10:11 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 09:33 AM)Machias Wrote:  It seems as though she once suggested that path. She admits it was naive, even misguided.

And there are many non-white, non-males here who are anti-theist. What do you make of that?

I think predominately white male sentiments, catch on to outliers. Even supporters of the confederate flag are not all white, and even have a handful of black folks. The tea-party another such group, has plenty of females, and non-white supporters.

And if you look at the demographics of such group, the racial breakdown, white-male are more likely to be supportive of such sentiments, than other demographics. This is not to blame this on skin color, but rather unique cultural, and social factors, that are present in white western demographics, than non-white demographics, whose histories are still raw from being at the receiving end of such sentiments.

Those are the cases, In the US at least. Based on Pew research in these types of things. The median"atheist" whatever they use in these data claims, probably religious Nons. Is a 34 year old white male with at least an associates degree education.

While for the tea party, the average member is a baby boomer of the range between 46-67 years old. There is not some association I would make of a tea-party as equaling any angrier than any other republican party member though. Tea Party folks are more bent closer to a libertarian curve, they just don't as strongly fill in the religious conservative section of the demographic. It's why the Santorum/Huckabee supporters aren't the same folks as many tea party Ron Paul/Trump supporters. I wouldn't associate anger as a difference between them.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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08-12-2015, 10:44 AM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2015 11:00 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 10:07 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I looked at both those articles and then followed to the site of those who made the poll. They don't conflate "ANGRY" with Anti-Theist on their stance of the poll at all. Only the articles then you have done that.


Anti-theism is not organized body or view, it's a self-identifying label, that primarily defined by popular representatives of it. The angry label is not particularly one rejected by anti-theists, folks like Greta Christina would argue that anger is justified.

Anger has been the basic fuel of the movement all together, even if you want to claim that anger is warranted. It's why it borrowed from the anger over 9/11 to get it going, and why even the OP has to use the anger over the recent shootings as a mean of recruitment.

Apathetic folks are likely to not be interested, while folks who are angry at the supposed influence and damage done by religion, are the prime candidates. Their sentiment in a lot of ways parallel the sentiments of other angry western groups. No one need to be surprised to point out that tea party is an angry group of conservatives/libertarians, and the same here applies to anti-theist. And it's not surprising that these groups often reinforce the same basic sentiments, particularly in regards to Islam. While Dawkins is readily inclined to attack the intentions of a 14 year old boy, he doesn't seem particularly inclined to speak out against right-wing anti-muslim rhetoric. And folks like Harris, and Maher are inclined to openly support it.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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08-12-2015, 11:27 AM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 10:44 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Anger has been the basic fuel of the movement all together, even if you want to claim that anger is warranted. It's why it borrowed from the anger over 9/11 to get it going, and why even the OP has to use the anger over the recent shootings as a mean of recruitment.

Prove it.
Oh wait. You just made that shit up.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-12-2015, 11:45 AM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 09:28 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 09:23 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  [Image: f7a76e67a079381334715e3e481886f5.jpg]

To be fair, I've known plenty of non-religious people who couldn't be reasoned with either.

See Also: ResPublica, Patriot10mm, and our favorite dead horse Luminon.

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