Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
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08-12-2015, 06:03 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 10:44 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 10:07 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I looked at both those articles and then followed to the site of those who made the poll. They don't conflate "ANGRY" with Anti-Theist on their stance of the poll at all. Only the articles then you have done that.


Anti-theism is not organized body or view, it's a self-identifying label, that primarily defined by popular representatives of it. The angry label is not particularly one rejected by anti-theists, folks like Greta Christina would argue that anger is justified.

Anger has been the basic fuel of the movement all together, even if you want to claim that anger is warranted. It's why it borrowed from the anger over 9/11 to get it going, and why even the OP has to use the anger over the recent shootings as a mean of recruitment.

Apathetic folks are likely to not be interested, while folks who are angry at the supposed influence and damage done by religion, are the prime candidates. Their sentiment in a lot of ways parallel the sentiments of other angry western groups. No one need to be surprised to point out that tea party is an angry group of conservatives/libertarians, and the same here applies to anti-theist. And it's not surprising that these groups often reinforce the same basic sentiments, particularly in regards to Islam. While Dawkins is readily inclined to attack the intentions of a 14 year old boy, he doesn't seem particularly inclined to speak out against right-wing anti-muslim rhetoric. And folks like Harris, and Maher are inclined to openly support it.

I don't have to be angry at religion to conclude that religion is harmful to society. I know a lot of really, really, really nice religious people. But (especially with Christians and Muslims, since I know more about their religion), I would argue that it is in spite of their "sacred texts". Taking the antitheistic position could mean just trying to open people's eyes about the problems of relgion and believing in a god that might not be there.

If religion has a text telling them to "go ye into all the world and preach the gospel", I think this world needs the opposite to that which I see is antitheism. If anger is the motivation for some antitheists that's on them, but you're gonna need some evidence to show that it's the driving force of antitheism.

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08-12-2015, 06:16 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
First, you need to define Anti-theist. Do you mean people who are out in the streets shouting, writing books or making youtube videos or more violently anti theist like how a couple of dictators were?

I think we just need more people to speak out when stupid shit happens in the name of religion. More voices to call out the b/s on completely insane asinine beliefs and put a stop to any comments against Jews as antisemitic or anything that DARES to question the beliefs of Islam as Islamophobic.


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08-12-2015, 10:40 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 07:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 12:04 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Good thing I'm not making anything up.

No, you're just blindly following those who did make shit up. You are a dupe.
Oh really. Who has the same view as me. I'd really like to know.
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08-12-2015, 10:43 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 10:40 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 07:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, you're just blindly following those who did make shit up. You are a dupe.
Oh really. Who has the same view as me. I'd really like to know.

So you are making shit up?
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08-12-2015, 10:53 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 06:03 PM)WalkingSnake Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 10:44 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Anti-theism is not organized body or view, it's a self-identifying label, that primarily defined by popular representatives of it. The angry label is not particularly one rejected by anti-theists, folks like Greta Christina would argue that anger is justified.

Anger has been the basic fuel of the movement all together, even if you want to claim that anger is warranted. It's why it borrowed from the anger over 9/11 to get it going, and why even the OP has to use the anger over the recent shootings as a mean of recruitment.

Apathetic folks are likely to not be interested, while folks who are angry at the supposed influence and damage done by religion, are the prime candidates. Their sentiment in a lot of ways parallel the sentiments of other angry western groups. No one need to be surprised to point out that tea party is an angry group of conservatives/libertarians, and the same here applies to anti-theist. And it's not surprising that these groups often reinforce the same basic sentiments, particularly in regards to Islam. While Dawkins is readily inclined to attack the intentions of a 14 year old boy, he doesn't seem particularly inclined to speak out against right-wing anti-muslim rhetoric. And folks like Harris, and Maher are inclined to openly support it.

I don't have to be angry at religion to conclude that religion is harmful to society. I know a lot of really, really, really nice religious people. But (especially with Christians and Muslims, since I know more about their religion), I would argue that it is in spite of their "sacred texts". Taking the antitheistic position could mean just trying to open people's eyes about the problems of relgion and believing in a god that might not be there.

If religion has a text telling them to "go ye into all the world and preach the gospel", I think this world needs the opposite to that which I see is antitheism. If anger is the motivation for some antitheists that's on them, but you're gonna need some evidence to show that it's the driving force of antitheism.
Could you explain what is wrong or damaging to civilization about believing in God?

Not talking about any specific doctrine. I am qinuinely curious. Thanks.
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08-12-2015, 11:07 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
The problem pops, is that those beliefs in God regularly come with divine commands to "spread the good news", kill the infidel or push all the world's population to practice their God's rules.
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08-12-2015, 11:41 PM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 11:07 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  The problem pops, is that those beliefs in God regularly come with divine commands to "spread the good news", kill the infidel or push all the world's population to practice their God's rules.

Which are standard memes from an earlier time where a religion could be useful to bind a civilisation together. Infusing the masses with a sense of common purpose has always been a bit problematic for unimaginative rulers - religion is like a God given tool for that Smile

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-12-2015, 01:15 AM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 10:53 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 06:03 PM)WalkingSnake Wrote:  I don't have to be angry at religion to conclude that religion is harmful to society. I know a lot of really, really, really nice religious people. But (especially with Christians and Muslims, since I know more about their religion), I would argue that it is in spite of their "sacred texts". Taking the antitheistic position could mean just trying to open people's eyes about the problems of relgion and believing in a god that might not be there.

If religion has a text telling them to "go ye into all the world and preach the gospel", I think this world needs the opposite to that which I see is antitheism. If anger is the motivation for some antitheists that's on them, but you're gonna need some evidence to show that it's the driving force of antitheism.
Could you explain what is wrong or damaging to civilization about believing in God?

Not talking about any specific doctrine. I am qinuinely curious. Thanks.

Really? This is the equivalent of asking why are you on this site. Something that should of been clearly seen dozens of times as it's expressed constantly. I don't believe your earnesty at all.. then again you go one about how you don't even go back to read a post, so...

Believing in God & Afterlife can cause people to disregard human crisis's,(global warming, population/transpiration of goods issues) It also causes completely worthless US vs THEM divisions,(chosen people, "correct" god vs wrong god believes, degrading and hating/committing violence upon others because they don't believe your god is right) It also harms peoples family & health with tension and chosing prayer of actual medicial treatment, it becomes a serious problem when people believe their "special knowledge" through faith is just as good or better sources of medical treatments than applied testable patterns of health.

Believing in God can give people some sense they have a purpose to do good, but they also have the ability to do acts of kindness/helping the planet/population of folks without any attachment to a god as well.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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09-12-2015, 05:41 AM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
Let us not lose sight of the truth as it is: theists began the conflict that has existed between them and those that are non believers. One must state this plainly and with confidence. I would leave them to their beliefs and delusions if they would just leave me alone. Unfortunately, they haven't and they won't. They simply cannot because they are compelled to spread the word, because if they don't, the illusion won't hold. I will not hide beneath the thin blanket of an excuse that "not all theists are bad". Religion, faith, revealed truth, all of it is toxic and infected with lies. It impedes progress, it manipulates the most vulnerable and attempts to dictate by divine sanction. I will not turn a blind eye to this, nor should any free thinker.
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09-12-2015, 05:52 AM
RE: Is it time for you to become Anti-theist?
(08-12-2015 10:53 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Could you explain what is wrong or damaging to civilization about believing in God?

Not talking about any specific doctrine. I am qinuinely curious. Thanks.

Belief in God is not exactly harmful itself. It's when you link morality to God that makes this way of thinking become unstable.

Question: Why is rape wrong?

Theist Answer: Because God said so.

Question: Why does God say rape is wrong?

Theist Answer: Because it causes harm to others. A society that allows harm to be caused to others is an unsafe society.

Question: You need God to tell you that?


This is where it gets unstable.

Question: Why did you go to that village and commit genocide, killing everyone except the young virgin girls, taking the girls home for yourself (sounds kinda like rape)?

Theist Answer: Because God said so.


If you believe that God created us but doesn't actually dictate morality and demand that you blindly follow, I don't have a problem with that. I'd still find the belief not rooted in reality though. But certainly less harmful than the "god said it i believe it that settles it" doctrine.

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