Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
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04-08-2013, 03:14 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
[/quote='Mike' pid='353977' dateline='1375597234']
But do you believe in Big Bang theory? According to this theory, everything, including space and time itself, or even void begin when the Big Bang start. Some said before the Big Bang occurred, no space, time and anything else exist. I don't know if even "absolute nothingness" can be assert before the Big Bang occurred. My personal opinion is there are neither something nor nothing before the Big Bang, although I tend to think that there must be some kind of "something" that we can't understand or maybe it's unknowable. I also tend to think that if we say before Big Bang started nothing existed or something existed, I think it's wrong because there is no even "before" prior the Big Bang because time itself started at the very first instant of the Big Bang. But according to the religious community, they will said "it is God that created the event". What's your opinion?
[/quote]

My opinion tends to align with many atheists and non-believers, in that we don't know what happened before the Big Bang, if that's even a coherent question. We don't know what, if anything, caused the Big Bang. Instead of admitting that it the answer is beyond our reach right now, the religious community does what it has always done - try to stick their god or gods into the equation. There is no reason to attribute the origin of the universe to a divine power, any more than magic or just pulling a random answer out of thin air. Their answer is a guess, nothing more. The only way to get an answer to this question, so far, is to follow the scientific method and go where the trail takes us. If that trail leads to God, so be it. But that won't be a viable answer unless the evidence points to it.

Additionally, I think you may have a misconception about the Big Bang theory. "...everything, even space and time itself, or even void begin when the big bang start...". Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you seem to think that the Big Bang explains where space and time began, where in my understanding it is the model that describes the expansion event that formed the universe as we know it.

Damn quote function...sorry, all, I'll get the hang of it someday. Dodgy

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04-08-2013, 05:26 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
The model does help to describe and explain the expansion of the universe and working backwards from that idea, we get something we call a singularity. A small unstable point of really dense, really hot "something". What that something is we can't say, but we call it a singularity because we believe that it's similar to what we observe going on in black holes.

Our known expanding space and with it our known time (change) have their beginnings at the beginning of the expansion.

So far, all of our known observations we have made about the universe fit this model.
The big bag theory provides an explanation to what we have observed.

As time goes on and we discover more about the universe, we may and more than likely will revise our theories to help fit the new information we have gained. Until new evidence is obtained, this is our best explanation.

So holding something to be true based on what we can explain with evidence is better than believing in something with no evidence.
(^ I go with that most of the time^)

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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04-08-2013, 06:53 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(04-08-2013 03:14 AM)TheHappyHeretic Wrote:  Additionally, I think you may have a misconception about the Big Bang theory. "...everything, even space and time itself, or even void begin when the big bang start...". Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you seem to think that the Big Bang explains where space and time began, where in my understanding it is the model that describes the expansion event that formed the universe as we know it.

Damn quote function...sorry, all, I'll get the hang of it someday. Dodgy

So you believe space and time is eternal and without beginning? Is this what you mean?
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04-08-2013, 06:56 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(04-08-2013 05:26 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  The model does help to describe and explain the expansion of the universe and working backwards from that idea, we get something we call a singularity. A small unstable point of really dense, really hot "something". What that something is we can't say, but we call it a singularity because we believe that it's similar to what we observe going on in black holes.

Our known expanding space and with it our known time (change) have their beginnings at the beginning of the expansion.

So far, all of our known observations we have made about the universe fit this model.
The big bag theory provides an explanation to what we have observed.

As time goes on and we discover more about the universe, we may and more than likely will revise our theories to help fit the new information we have gained. Until new evidence is obtained, this is our best explanation.

So holding something to be true based on what we can explain with evidence is better than believing in something with no evidence.
(^ I go with that most of the time^)

Then universe, as a whole, is infinite right? I believe only the observable universe is finite and limited.
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04-08-2013, 07:02 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(04-08-2013 06:56 AM)Mike Wrote:  
(04-08-2013 05:26 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  The model does help to describe and explain the expansion of the universe and working backwards from that idea, we get something we call a singularity. A small unstable point of really dense, really hot "something". What that something is we can't say, but we call it a singularity because we believe that it's similar to what we observe going on in black holes.

Our known expanding space and with it our known time (change) have their beginnings at the beginning of the expansion.

So far, all of our known observations we have made about the universe fit this model.
The big bag theory provides an explanation to what we have observed.

As time goes on and we discover more about the universe, we may and more than likely will revise our theories to help fit the new information we have gained. Until new evidence is obtained, this is our best explanation.

So holding something to be true based on what we can explain with evidence is better than believing in something with no evidence.
(^ I go with that most of the time^)

Then universe, as a whole, is infinite right? I believe only the observable universe is finite and limited.

No, not right. It may or may not be. I find it more plausible that it is finite but unbounded.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-08-2013, 07:08 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(04-08-2013 07:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, not right. It may or may not be. I find it more plausible that it is finite but unbounded.

It is infinitely finite.

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04-08-2013, 07:56 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(04-08-2013 06:56 AM)Mike Wrote:  
(04-08-2013 05:26 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  The model does help to describe and explain the expansion of the universe and working backwards from that idea, we get something we call a singularity. A small unstable point of really dense, really hot "something". What that something is we can't say, but we call it a singularity because we believe that it's similar to what we observe going on in black holes.

Our known expanding space and with it our known time (change) have their beginnings at the beginning of the expansion.

So far, all of our known observations we have made about the universe fit this model.
The big bag theory provides an explanation to what we have observed.

As time goes on and we discover more about the universe, we may and more than likely will revise our theories to help fit the new information we have gained. Until new evidence is obtained, this is our best explanation.

So holding something to be true based on what we can explain with evidence is better than believing in something with no evidence.
(^ I go with that most of the time^)

Then universe, as a whole, is infinite right? I believe only the observable universe is finite and limited.

3 is a finite number.
How many numbers are there between 2 & 3?
2.5
2.7777
2.9999999999999

An infinity can be found within the finite

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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04-08-2013, 08:00 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(04-08-2013 07:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-08-2013 06:56 AM)Mike Wrote:  Then universe, as a whole, is infinite right? I believe only the observable universe is finite and limited.

No, not right. It may or may not be. I find it more plausible that it is finite but unbounded.

Finite but yet unbounded like this Earth? In my opinion this is still finite and limited.
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04-08-2013, 08:01 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(04-08-2013 07:08 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(04-08-2013 07:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, not right. It may or may not be. I find it more plausible that it is finite but unbounded.

It is infinitely finite.

Hahahaha. Infinitely finite? Isn't it paradoxical? How's that.
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04-08-2013, 08:02 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(04-08-2013 07:56 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(04-08-2013 06:56 AM)Mike Wrote:  Then universe, as a whole, is infinite right? I believe only the observable universe is finite and limited.

3 is a finite number.
How many numbers are there between 2 & 3?
2.5
2.7777
2.9999999999999

An infinity can be found within the finite

Can we called the universe is neither finite nor infinite? Big Grin
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