Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
27-08-2013, 11:34 PM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(27-08-2013 10:20 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  The 99% empty space part has been refined a bit and as we look at empty space, we find it's not so empty. Turns out that empty space weighs something. It's characterized as a boiling bubbling brew of virtual particles that are popping in and out of existence. As we look at the empty space inside of a proton, between the quarks, we find that 90% of the mass we associate with the proton actually comes from this empty space.





Can gravity exist without space and time?
Gravity is now seen as a curvature of space, so space would be needed and presumably where you have space, you more than likely will have the concept of time.

When I say the universe as we known it, I'm talking about in the far distant future when all the stars have burnt out, galaxies gone, super clusters gone, but you still have forces at work (gravity, etc) and how they all interact with each other at this point is anyone's bet.

So actually space is a membrane composed of virtual particles? Is this what you mean? It's good to know that. Considering that the whole universe is infinite, then the virtual particles are also infinite. So the things that occupied no space and time would be the things prior to the Big Bang. What's your opinion? My personal opinion is, I think there are no something as we know today exist prior to the Big Bang, and not even absolute nothingness can be asserted prior to the Big Bang.
Quote this message in a reply
28-08-2013, 06:20 PM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
For now space is the 3 dimensional length, width, height from one point to another.
In our universe, it's also the place that contains the stuff we view as the universe.
It's difficult to say if space is a thing. It is expanding and that's about all I know.
The virtual particles I mentioned aren't space, but merely what we find when we look at what we previously viewed as empty space.

The observable universe isn't infinite, although it may contain infinities like a mobius strip.

Prior to the Big Bang
What do you see when you look south while standing at the south pole. Try to walk further south while standing at the south pole.
Every step you take leads you north.
The same is true for the Big Bang.

You can't travel back in time to a point before time existed.

If I step outside of time and space, what do I see ?
First off, I will not notice that I don't have a body because I don't have a body to detect that I don't have a body.
Without my body, I can't detect anything.

So that's about it.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-08-2013, 08:23 PM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(28-08-2013 06:20 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  For now space is the 3 dimensional length, width, height from one point to another.
In our universe, it's also the place that contains the stuff we view as the universe.
It's difficult to say if space is a thing. It is expanding and that's about all I know.
The virtual particles I mentioned aren't space, but merely what we find when we look at what we previously viewed as empty space.

In much the same way that time is what keeps everything from happening at once, space is what keeps everything from happening in one place.

Space exists insofar as time does, and broadly speaking they're both ways of considering separation. Why are events separated? Because of cause and effect. Why cause and effect? Because we define entropy with a direction.

(28-08-2013 06:20 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Prior to the Big Bang
What do you see when you look south while standing at the south pole. Try to walk further south while standing at the south pole.
Every step you take leads you north.
The same is true for the Big Bang.

Not a bad analogy!

(28-08-2013 06:20 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If I step outside of time and space, what do I see ?
First off, I will not notice that I don't have a body because I don't have a body to detect that I don't have a body.
Without my body, I can't detect anything.

So that's about it.

The question's incoherent (not meant to be a slur - it just literally doesn't make conceptual sense!); you'd be as well served by contemplating the Shoyoroku as any physics text, for the time being...

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-08-2013, 08:35 PM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
After giving the "outside of time and space" idea some thought, I think unconsciousness would be an approximate analogy.
When you are unaware of space, unaware of time, you are in a sense, outside of those parameters (as an analogy) not literally.

I've always fancied the fantasy idea of each time I become unconscious, the entire universe could play itself out and remake itself again, exactly as it was before, with me waking up in the same body, never knowing that 50 billion years (a made up number) had past.

That is what unconsciousness can do. It essentially stops the flow of awareness so that an eternity could pass and you wouldn't know it.
That is my best guess at what "outside of space and time" would be like.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-08-2013, 09:04 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(28-08-2013 08:35 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  After giving the "outside of time and space" idea some thought, I think unconsciousness would be an approximate analogy.
When you are unaware of space, unaware of time, you are in a sense, outside of those parameters (as an analogy) not literally.

I've always fancied the fantasy idea of each time I become unconscious, the entire universe could play itself out and remake itself again, exactly as it was before, with me waking up in the same body, never knowing that 50 billion years (a made up number) had past.

That is what unconsciousness can do. It essentially stops the flow of awareness so that an eternity could pass and you wouldn't know it.
That is my best guess at what "outside of space and time" would be like.

So it's absolute nothingness prior to the Big Bang? I tend to think that even absolute nothingness can't be asserted to it and neither also somethingness. I don't know why I like to imagine and fantasized what is prior to the Big Bang. I agree with your views about what can be possibly happen if we are beyond the space time. But regarding to "an eternity could pass", an eternity couldn't be passed because that would implied that it's not eternal right?
Quote this message in a reply
29-08-2013, 09:10 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(28-08-2013 08:23 PM)cjlr Wrote:  In much the same way that time is what keeps everything from happening at once, space is what keeps everything from happening in one place.

Space exists insofar as time does, and broadly speaking they're both ways of considering separation. Why are events separated? Because of cause and effect. Why cause and effect? Because we define entropy with a direction.

Not a bad analogy!

The question's incoherent (not meant to be a slur - it just literally doesn't make conceptual sense!); you'd be as well served by contemplating the Shoyoroku as any physics text, for the time being...

Of course I know it doesn't make sense, but it's not absolutely wrong to ask a question like this. Cool

If the Universe end one day, will the space and time get destroyed? Can you imagine what's remain after the Universe end? I can't imagine it because "time" already destroyed. So saying that after the Universe end there will be absolute nothingness or there will be something remain is totally useless.
Quote this message in a reply
29-08-2013, 10:13 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(29-08-2013 09:04 AM)Mike Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 08:35 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  After giving the "outside of time and space" idea some thought, I think unconsciousness would be an approximate analogy.
When you are unaware of space, unaware of time, you are in a sense, outside of those parameters (as an analogy) not literally.

I've always fancied the fantasy idea of each time I become unconscious, the entire universe could play itself out and remake itself again, exactly as it was before, with me waking up in the same body, never knowing that 50 billion years (a made up number) had past.

That is what unconsciousness can do. It essentially stops the flow of awareness so that an eternity could pass and you wouldn't know it.
That is my best guess at what "outside of space and time" would be like.

So it's absolute nothingness prior to the Big Bang? I tend to think that even absolute nothingness can't be asserted to it and neither also somethingness. I don't know why I like to imagine and fantasized what is prior to the Big Bang. I agree with your views about what can be possibly happen if we are beyond the space time. But regarding to "an eternity could pass", an eternity couldn't be passed because that would implied that it's not eternal right?

Conceptually you can have infinities within finite time frames, so you could have an eternity pass by in the blink of an eye or you can spend an eternity within that time frame.

Think of it like this. How many numbers are between 2 & 3 ?
2.0000000000000000001
2.1
2.2
2.333333333333333333333333 repeating

There are an infinite number of numbers between 2 & 3 and yet we can pass through an eternity to get to 3 or rather, we bridge the gap instead of traveling through every number in the gap.

Imagine there is an infinitely deep crack in the sidewalk and you step over it as you are walking. You have just passed over an infinite amount of space.

That is the kind of concept I was referring to when I said "an eternity could pass by and you wouldn't even know it"

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-08-2013, 10:34 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
(29-08-2013 09:04 AM)Mike Wrote:  So it's absolute nothingness prior to the Big Bang?

So far, the evidence we have shows time, in this universe, beginning at the expansion.

Beyond that, we get into the realm of belief and faith (believing without evidence)
I can imagine a great deal of what I believe might be the case for our universe or other universes out there.

Now if we don't get hung up on the term universe (meaning ALL things) instead of simply OUR universe, then I move forward in my thought.
For this purpose I am going to call our universe a universe, meaning all that we observe within THIS expansion.

I can imagine that this expansion (OUR universe) is not the first one, but it could be.
I would like to imagine a large 4th of July fireworks type of expanding universes all in celebration of some massive party.

I can even envision that our expansion is one of thousands that happen every second like the explosions ignited by a spark in my cars engine to propel a cylinder and turn a crank shaft.

Our imaginations can come up with some crazy ideas when we don't have any evidence to explain a question we might have. We try to fill that gap, that sometimes infinite gap with something that allows us to walk over it and continue on, other wise our minds can get stuck in that gap and unable to cross the infinity in order to walk down the street to get a slice of pizza.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-08-2013, 01:20 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
It is known that the ex-atheist, Antony Flew eventually converted into a weak deism because he said the following,

My one and only piece of relevant evidence [for an Aristotelian God] is the apparent impossibility of providing a naturalistic theory of the origin from DNA of the first reproducing species ... [In fact] the only reason which I have for beginning to think of believing in a First Cause god is the impossibility of providing a naturalistic account of the origin of the first reproducing organisms.

There is also a claim that Flew was persuaded by the Kalam Cosmological Argument. Btw Flew "cannot recall" claiming "the kalam cosmological argument is a sound argument" for God but he confesses his memory fails him often now so he can't be sure. Nevertheless, what Antony thought of the Kalam, to which he said:

If and insofar as it is supposed to prove the existence of a First Cause of the Big Bang, I have no objection, but this is not at all the same as a proof of the existence of a spirit and all the rest of Richard Swinburne's definition of 'God' which is presently accepted as standard throughout the English speaking and philosophical world.
Quote this message in a reply
30-08-2013, 08:12 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
Mark Twain quotes

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything."
"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't"
"A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read."

Lastly
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: