Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
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20-07-2013, 12:54 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
Alright here is my disproof of this:

Quote:It is clear that this world is an incredibly organized place.
Actually, the world isn't that organized. Actually, I dare say that the world isn't even IDEAL for life. Lets think about that for a moment. The earth had major natural disasters that seem to make a huge fucking mess of things on the planet as well as have the potential to fuck things up. And so what? Organization doesn't mean a creator, it just means that the laws of the universe allow it to be organized.

Think about this:

There is a pot-hole in the road, and the only thing in the pot-hole are things that can fit inside it. The pot-holes shape seperates objects larger than the hole from objects smaller, this can be classed as an organization, but it is completely natural, expected even.


Quote:Take for example the human cell and how it develops and is coordinated with the rest of the body, or the incredible precision of the solar system and the earth’s atmosphere. Sound reasoning tells us that these are not random events, and if they are not random, then they are organized, and organization requires someone’s specification and power to give specifications and realize them without exception.


Take note of the bolded words. They are misleading. He/she is right, they aren't random, but that doesn't mean a damn thing. We can argue about the 'incredible precision' of the solar system and how 'intelligently designed earth's atmosphere is, but the problem is this: He is he is perpetuating the lie that just because these events aren't random, that a INTELLIGENT, SENTIENT Creator MUST have done it. That's bullshit, you know why? Because we know why things are why they are, the laws of the universe. The laws dictate everything. We also know why cells do what they do, and how they do what they do, and there is no magical god-intervention.

Organization does not require a sentient being, they require a filter. Filters do not have to be sentient, or even intelligent.

Quote:To illustrate why this is true, let us say for example that you had left a room extremely messy, with clothes thrown on the floor, furniture upside down, and so on. Later you came back to the room and found it tidy and neat. Would you accept that this neatness came about without someone or something having done the work of tidying?

The universe and the earth is not Neat. There are tons of pitiless, pointless destruction and damage, and as much as people love to focus in the beautiful parts of life, the shitty parts are everywhere, and if the beautiful parts are evidence of design, then the shit-poor parts are evidence of NOT-design.

We also have good reasons and theories as to how earth originated without the need of magic, and just because they don't require magic, those theories are instantly more plausible than, "God did it."

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20-07-2013, 01:03 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
The Kalam Cosmological argument falls flat on its face.

Premise one: Whatever begins to exist has a cause.

First of all, this is UNSUPPORTED. We have never seen anything BEGIN to exist. How is this so? Because we have never created anything. We have never taken and made matter exist.

We have only ever seen previous matter be converted into different matter, and that needs a cause. So we can't claim this to be true. In fact, the only thing we have observed to be close (not really observed) is virtual particles, and they have no EXPLAINABLE cause. So far, it seems that it is the exact opposite.

Premise one is unsupported.

That's all I really am getting into Kalam, but I refer you to this video:




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20-07-2013, 01:26 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
Thank you very much for your replies. From what I've read from all of his articles he said we can't give Allah human attribute yet he said Allah have Will therefore he have knowledge, but the knowledge isn't like our knowledge because our knowledge is limited while Allah's knowledge is not limited and can't be imagined. Whereas if Allah isn't like anything moves, breathe, etc. why he, Sheikh Abu Adam attribute 'knowledge' to Allah like living things? I sense some self-contradictory statement of him.
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20-07-2013, 01:34 AM (This post was last modified: 20-07-2013 01:41 AM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
I'm curious, did you join this forum to simply pose this question? Most of replies are from 2010.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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20-07-2013, 02:05 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
(20-07-2013 01:34 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I'm curious, did you join this forum to simply pose this question? Most of replies are from 2010.

No. I just want to see the refutations of all his articles in the site. Yeah, of course I know most of them are from three years ago.
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20-07-2013, 02:27 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
I don't even know what it is but I can tell you with 100% certainty that it's a load of shit.

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20-07-2013, 03:29 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
Can anyone deconstruct his statements in this article? http://sunnianswers.wordpress.com/2008/0...-infinity/
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20-07-2013, 03:48 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
I already told you it's a load of shit, what more do you need!?

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20-07-2013, 04:02 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
Did he really refuted this argument? Omnipotence and the so-called unliftable stone
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20-07-2013, 04:03 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
(20-07-2013 03:48 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I already told you it's a load of shit, what more do you need!?

I just need to know the refutation to him so I can show him what's true and false. Calm down mate.
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