Is it true that no one can refute this? KCA by Sheikh Abu Adam Naruiji
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20-07-2013, 05:47 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
If he was able to discern what is true or false, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

He believes things that have no evidentiary support. Only when this state of mind ends will you be able to show him any refutation.
He will deny, back petal, make excuses, assert claims without evidence, all to preserve his faith.
He will cling to anything he can that helps to support his belief in his mind.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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20-07-2013, 06:35 AM
refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
When it comes to his idea of "an infinite series of events must have happened before this moment OR the universe had a beginning", he is creating in his mind a one or the other and for him, there is no other option. He is closing himself off from observation.

Imagine you exist on a molecule of water in a cloud of steam (water vapor)
Observation tells you that the steam you exist in began to expand outward a very long time ago.

Did the molecules of water begin to exist at the same moment that the steam began to expand ?
NO, they did not.

Did the water molecules have some infinite series of events before they expanded into steam.
NO, they did not.

To say that the universe we live in either has a beginning or it has always been creates a false idea about the nature of nature.
We see change in nature. One thing becoming another and others coming together to make some entirely new shape.

[Image: cloud-computing-3.jpg]

We can say that this cloud in the sky had a beginning as a smaller cloud and it ends when it becomes a larger cloud.
In much the same way, we can say the universe had a beginning a moment ago and it ended, the moment it changed.

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20-07-2013, 06:52 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
So, Mike... this guy got a big ol' blog o' bullshit, and you think he's gonna accept some kind of refutation? Dodgy

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20-07-2013, 06:57 AM (This post was last modified: 20-07-2013 08:49 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
Kalam is is worthless for many reasons. They include :
1. If one accepts the premise regarding cause, then it assumes that the actual cause is the ultimate cause. The case is not made.
If there was a cause it is just "proximate cause". That means the cause of the universe could have had another cause, at a higher level. It does not address this question. All it says is that all things have a cause. Fine. The cause could have been a pink bunny who was created by a race of aliens with the power to create universes, who were created by omnipotent dung beetles whose job it is to create aliens who create pink bunnies who can create universes, ad infinitum. It's a statement about cause that assumes that the "nearest" or "proximate" cause was a god, for no stated reason, and with no demonstrated necessity.
2. Kalam assumes the universe, and /or all universes are subject to what human brains perceive to be logically "intuitive". That means that, ultimately, the universe or the nature of Reality is what we perceive to be logical. That has been proven false. Relativity, (for example), and Uncertainty, and some mathematics have been proven to be true, yet they are completely illogical. If logic only, or what appears to be intuitively correct (logical) to human brains, which evolved to deal with Reality only on one level, is the ultimate arbiter, the facts about (for example) Quantum Mechanics would never have been discovered.
3. 95 % of the "reality" of this universe is, at this point , unknown. Dark energy and dark matter comprise the vast majority of what this universe is comprised of, yet we have no clue what they even are. Thus saying "all things" that are, have a cause, is WAY premature. No statement can be made about "all things" until we know at least what a majority of the universe consists of. We are FAR from that point.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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20-07-2013, 07:01 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
Here ya go

All natural things have natural causes.

~Fin~

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20-07-2013, 07:08 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
(20-07-2013 06:52 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  So, Mike... this guy got a big ol' blog o' bullshit, and you think he's gonna accept some kind of refutation? Dodgy

LOL I don't think so because I know he will still want to defend his views. So all his statement in his site can't be refuted? Or it is better to leave him alone because he'll always insisting his opinions no matter what?
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20-07-2013, 07:10 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
(20-07-2013 07:01 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Here ya go

All natural things have natural causes.

~Fin~

Thank you so much for your informative replies btw. Do you already read his website? What's your opinion about it?
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20-07-2013, 07:22 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
(20-07-2013 07:10 AM)Mike Wrote:  
(20-07-2013 07:01 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Here ya go

All natural things have natural causes.

~Fin~

Thank you so much for your informative replies btw. Do you already read his website? What's your opinion about it?

Never heard of the guy but I've heard of people like him. (WLC aka Two Citations Craig )

I have only glanced over an article and I'm willing to bet his site is filled with lots of other nonsense.
My opinion of most things "You reap what you sow" and then sometimes it hails on you in between some very nice sunny perfect days.

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20-07-2013, 07:25 AM
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
(20-07-2013 07:08 AM)Mike Wrote:  
(20-07-2013 06:52 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  So, Mike... this guy got a big ol' blog o' bullshit, and you think he's gonna accept some kind of refutation? Dodgy

LOL I don't think so. So all his statement in his site can't be refuted? Or it is better to leave him alone because he'll always insisting his opinions no matter how?

There's been points raised on this thread you could try, but usually when someone is so full of shit that it spills out into a blog, they're beyond hope. Big Grin

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20-07-2013, 07:37 AM
 
RE: Is it true that no one can refute this?No one can refute Kalam Cosmological Argument?
(20-07-2013 07:22 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(20-07-2013 07:10 AM)Mike Wrote:  Thank you so much for your informative replies btw. Do you already read his website? What's your opinion about it?

Never heard of the guy but I've heard of people like him. (WLC aka Two Citations Craig )

I have only glanced over an article and I'm willing to bet his site is filled with lots of other nonsense.
My opinion of most things "You reap what you sow" and then sometimes it hails on you in between some very nice sunny perfect days.

If you keep reading his articles there are conversations between him and several people in the comment section saying that, even William Laine Craig is using the same tool for argument (Kalam Cosmological Argument), they say WLC himself is not very good at utilizes KCA besides being a kaffir. It's like they claimed that they are better at using KCA than everybody else, especially non-Muslims.
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