Is it true there was no hell until Jesus?
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06-10-2011, 06:57 PM
Is it true there was no hell until Jesus?
I was reading Mark Twain's letters from the earth & his character gripes & laughs that humans laud Jesus as being gentle & loving, when he was the one that brought the news there is now a hell. Because before death was your relief, & now you could suffer eternally. Really? I never knew that. I never hear xtians mention that there wasn't always a hell.

Every time you say you don't believe, Jesus rips the wings off a fairy. - SkepticalParenting.com
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06-10-2011, 07:07 PM
RE: Is it true there was no hell until Jesus?
(06-10-2011 06:57 PM)EvilMomLady Wrote:  I was reading Mark Twain's letters from the earth & his character gripes & laughs that humans laud Jesus as being gentle & loving, when he was the one that brought the news there is now a hell. Because before death was your relief, & now you could suffer eternally. Really? I never knew that. I never hear xtians mention that there wasn't always a hell.

In Judaism there was no concept of hell. There wasn't even a concept of afterlife really.

The first real "hell" concept came about from the Greeks and Tartarus. Tartarus was a place of fiery torment for the defeated titans after the titanomachy.

I really think that the Greek creators of Christianity applied this tartarus concept to men and attributed it to Jesus.

"Do what though wilt shall be the whole of the Law." - The Book of the Law
"There is no God but man" - Liber OZ

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06-10-2011, 08:10 PM
RE: Is it true there was no hell until Jesus?
I am not so sure that it started with the Greeks. Several sites on the Internet indicate that the ancient Egyptians had a netherworld that shared much of what other cultures had in their concept of hell as well. I haven't found any scholarly sites yet, but it might be worth a look.

“There is no sin except stupidity.” Oscar Wilde
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07-10-2011, 12:24 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2011 12:39 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Is it true there was no hell until Jesus?
(06-10-2011 07:07 PM)Robertus_ Wrote:  In Judaism there was no concept of hell. There wasn't even a concept of afterlife really.

That's what I thought too. But an old Catholic who knew a lot of Jews told me that they believed in the same bullshit promise of a postmortem preservation of identity every bit as much as he did. Has their position changed in modern Judaism?

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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07-10-2011, 12:31 AM
RE: Is it true there was no hell until Jesus?
Good question. One thing is clear: the OT does not contain anything about eternal punishment in the afterlife. Sheol was a place of oblivion to which all went, good and bad. But nobody was roasting; there was no wailing and gnashing of teeth.

It bugs me that so many people seem to think that the barbarities of the Old Testament were corrected in the New, which is supposed to be so morally superior. The OT contains plenty of horrible things, but at least the punishments it metes out are finite, for this life only. It took the New Testament to give us the lovely concept of being tortured forever and ever and ever . . .

Despite my Jewish education as a kid, I'm not sure what modern Judaism says about the afterlife. The whole idea was never emphasized, or even in my memory discussed.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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07-10-2011, 12:47 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2011 01:51 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Is it true there was no hell until Jesus?
(07-10-2011 12:31 AM)cufflink Wrote:  Despite my Jewish education as a kid, I'm not sure what modern Judaism says about the afterlife. The whole idea was never emphasized, or even in my memory discussed.

And that makes me want to look into Judaism more. ... Afterlife, it's just an afterthought.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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07-10-2011, 09:46 AM
RE: Is it true there was no hell until Jesus?
(06-10-2011 08:10 PM)nontheocrat Wrote:  I am not so sure that it started with the Greeks. Several sites on the Internet indicate that the ancient Egyptians had a netherworld that shared much of what other cultures had in their concept of hell as well. I haven't found any scholarly sites yet, but it might be worth a look.

The Egyptian concept was an eternal annihilation of sorts. The Wicked were devoured by the god Ammit is the were judged unworthy at the weighing of the heart. At least in what I've read. The Righteous entered the realm of Osiris which was paradise like.

"Do what though wilt shall be the whole of the Law." - The Book of the Law
"There is no God but man" - Liber OZ

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07-10-2011, 11:29 AM
RE: Is it true there was no hell until Jesus?
(07-10-2011 12:47 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Afterlife, it's just an afterthought.

Nice. Cool

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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07-10-2011, 03:52 PM
RE: Is it true there was no hell until Jesus?
It was always my understanding that the Abrahamic religions derived their concepts of monotheism, heaven, hell and angels from Zoroaster.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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07-10-2011, 07:21 PM
RE: Is it true there was no hell until Jesus?
It is not true in the sense that evidence supports the claim. Perhaps in the fictional book "The Bible" it is.
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