Is it wrong to eat meat?
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29-01-2017, 09:42 PM
RE: Is it wrong to eat meat?
(29-01-2017 09:20 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(26-01-2017 04:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  My cow loves me.
Have a nice day.
Facepalm

God made cows to be sacrificed, not to be eaten!

Only virgin cows. Others are okay to eat.

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30-01-2017, 06:13 AM
RE: Is it wrong to eat meat?
(29-01-2017 09:59 AM)bemore Wrote:  I love all animals (the ones that can kill me I will appreciate from a safe distance) and whilst its convenient for me to not have to kill anything, but rather just pick up the finished article off a shelf, ill consume meat.

If I had to kill my own animals, skin, gut and prepare them. I wouldn't do it.

When the hunger kicks in and im desperate enough to survive. Then the cosy, soft and convenient ways that society has raised me, i imagine will slip away and all of the fluffy and cute animals will just look like quick, easy and convenient meals, that take little to no time to catch, compared to fruit and vegetables.

For bigger animals, ill probably have to join a pack of other humans, but the risk vs reward will be worth it if I dont get mauled/scratched/bitten myself.

It's easier than you think....

I've been doing it long enough - not only do I sometimes get hungry, while up to my elbows inside a deer's chest cavity --- sometimes I start drooling.....

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30-01-2017, 06:35 AM
RE: Is it wrong to eat meat?
(29-01-2017 08:02 PM)Aractus Wrote:  
(29-01-2017 09:38 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  For essential dietary requirements I agree, but there are supplements used for other purposes than nutrition (nootropics for example) and many of those do not occur naturally at all.

Well, Thiamine certainly does appear naturally. There are also sports supplements, which are designed to improve performance or gain, etc. They don't necessarily make you healthy though, and that's one of the things about extreme sports is you can end up with people that have a risk of mortality as high or higher than the obese population!

Quote:Why is it difficult? You start with those distributors and suppliers who provide independent COAs for all of their ingredients. A reputable supplier is happy to show you the results of the independent laboratory tests (especially since that's the main reason you're paying them a premium).

Lab tests from a manufacturer don't mean anything. I'm surprised you would trust them. Products that will actually get certified for use in Sports for example require require pretty much a random sample from every batch of the products to be tested, not just one batch tested. Also, lab tests that check for conformity with the packet don't tell you whether they've used quality (i.e. bioavailable) forms of the supplements, nor whether that supplements are formulated well. Every single multivitamin sold in an Australian supermarket appears to be poorly formulated in my opinion, and that's before we even get into those other problems.

Quote:Don't think that's true.

Well it is true. And not only are the supplements usually less bioavailable than food sources, but they cause problems with absorption of other nutrients from food. If we use my example of Iron you can see that:

"Dietary intake of iron at levels found in some supplements can decrease zinc absorption, which is of particular concern in the management of pregnancy and lactation." - NHMRC.

People generally treat supplements like food, whereas most nutritionists and dieticians would prefer they treat them like medication. A really big problem with Iron supplements is childhood toxicity and it happens because children even as young as toddlers see their parents or older siblings taking the supplements and then take it upon themselves to take them too. And it's a very common problem:

"Iron poisoning is a common toxicologic emergency in young children. Contributing factors include the availability of iron tablets and their candylike appearance. Ferrous sulfate tablets (20% elemental iron) are routinely administered to postpartum women, many of whom have toddlers in the family."

It is certainly true that many people need dietary supplements, even when eating what nutritionists believe to be their most ideal diets. But they are also a very big problem when not used in conjunction with evidence-based practise ideally overseen by a dietician, a nutritionist, or a physician.

I'd still like to hear your opinion of cholesterol.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles...story.html

Also, I have been found to have too little vitamin E - despite spending pretty much all of my time in the sun when it shines. (literally all the time 6 months and somewhat spotty in the rest of the year). Is there a known cause for this?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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30-01-2017, 09:12 AM
RE: Is it wrong to eat meat?
What do we know about cholesterol? Well its function in the body was not remotely understood 40 years ago, and when the US Surgeon General (I think?) issued a warning about cholesterol consumption in the early 80's it was in the mistaken belief that the scientific community was on the verge of proving a link between dietary cholesterol and blood pressure. The sugar industry and processed food manufacturers were thrilled with this and lobbied for it. As it happens there is no such link, LDL is raised by eating more saturated fats and lowered by eating more polyunsaturated fats. And low LDL levels cause a range of health conditions as well. Cholesterol is the precursor to all steroid hormones - oestrogen, testosterone, Vitamin D, etc.

What else we know about it in terms of veganisim is that we usually get about 15% of our cholesterol in the diet, and the body makes the other 85%. You can only get dietary cholesterol and vitamin D from animal products as plants and fungus don't make steroids.

Is it Vitamin E you want to talk about? Yes sun exposure appears to deplete Vitamin E from the skin. If you're low on it consider eating fatty fish at least twice a week. If it's Vitamin D you meant then the answer is simple - the body cannot store enough Vitamin D to make it through the winter months without sufficient sun exposure. At least that's what a dietician would tell you, in addition I'd note that like cholesterol we are supposed to get an amount of it from the diet, not just rely on the skin to produce it. So, extra fatty fish in the winter months! Mushrooms don't contain any dietary vitamin D, and it's quite disappointing to see claims that they do - they contain a substance known as "Vitamin D2" which is extremely misleading as it's nothing like Vitamin D3. Sure we may not have known that 30 years ago, but we've known it for at least the past 15 years.

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30-01-2017, 09:52 AM
RE: Is it wrong to eat meat?
(30-01-2017 09:12 AM)Aractus Wrote:  What do we know about cholesterol? Well its function in the body was not remotely understood 40 years ago, and when the US Surgeon General (I think?) issued a warning about cholesterol consumption in the early 80's it was in the mistaken belief that the scientific community was on the verge of proving a link between dietary cholesterol and blood pressure. The sugar industry and processed food manufacturers were thrilled with this and lobbied for it. As it happens there is no such link, LDL is raised by eating more saturated fats and lowered by eating more polyunsaturated fats. And low LDL levels cause a range of health conditions as well. Cholesterol is the precursor to all steroid hormones - oestrogen, testosterone, Vitamin D, etc.

What else we know about it in terms of veganisim is that we usually get about 15% of our cholesterol in the diet, and the body makes the other 85%. You can only get dietary cholesterol and vitamin D from animal products as plants and fungus don't make steroids.

Is it Vitamin E you want to talk about? Yes sun exposure appears to deplete Vitamin E from the skin. If you're low on it consider eating fatty fish at least twice a week. If it's Vitamin D you meant then the answer is simple - the body cannot store enough Vitamin D to make it through the winter months without sufficient sun exposure. At least that's what a dietician would tell you, in addition I'd note that like cholesterol we are supposed to get an amount of it from the diet, not just rely on the skin to produce it. So, extra fatty fish in the winter months! Mushrooms don't contain any dietary vitamin D, and it's quite disappointing to see claims that they do - they contain a substance known as "Vitamin D2" which is extremely misleading as it's nothing like Vitamin D3. Sure we may not have known that 30 years ago, but we've known it for at least the past 15 years.

Cholesterol - that is what I had picked up along the way. It's ingrained in people, including physicians, that it is always bad stuff. Mine hasn't raised any flags and I eat eggs and red meat as I wish. But they always test for it...

I love salmon and eat tons of it, also living in an area where it is plentiful. I also eat sardines and tuna, but more carefully so. I am naturally attracted to fatty fish and do eat lots of that. There is also a fresh fish monger online and I order various types of fish from there - I like to eat adventurous and try new things.

I meant vitamin D, thank you. The reading was taken in the middle of summer, when I am spending almost all my time in the gardens. Nothing but sunshine here in the summer months. It surprised me. Just wondering if anything is hindering the absorption...

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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30-01-2017, 10:26 AM
RE: Is it wrong to eat meat?
My diet is (by design) relatively high in fats (saturated included) and I make no effort to specifically avoid cholesterol. The only thing I really make an effort to limit is sweets. I might have a single dessert item once per week, but on a daily basis I almost entirely cut out anything that could be defined as sweetened. No candy, no soda (maybe once per year at a holiday dinner), no fruit juice, either black coffee or coffee with cream but no sugar, etc. I find that to be the most reliable way, in addition to exercise, to keep myself healthy

Attempts to maintain (supposedly) healthy levels of cholesterol by controlling one's intake of dietary cholesterol are rarely effective.

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08-03-2017, 05:20 PM
RE: Is it wrong to eat meat?
(26-01-2017 03:37 AM)Praying Birds Wrote:  First things first: Yet I think it is actually wrong to eat meat I do it myself and I wont judge anyone who does.

I thought about this matter a couple of times and I found a very simple but also very strong argument against the consumption of meat.

Even though the animal you eat would kill you and possibly eat you at any given moment it had a chance and the possibility to it's wrong to eat meat. By that I mean that the only reason a cow doesn't kill and eat you is because its teeth and its anatomy are not built for killing and consuming meat. Yet its healthy instinct (like in every other being including humans) says it should survive at any cost and use any energy source it can find and process.

Humans also have this instinct but it got overlapped by the rational mind and some sort of free will (no matter whether actual free will exists). This creates the possibility to chose.

And the choice is very simple.

Why would you in the situation of choice between a higher standing and a lower standing being decide to eat the higher standing? Because it tastes better? That is just hilarious and primitive.

By choosing to act as a being unlike an animal you actually should refuse to consume meat.

Yet - as I said - I consume meat myself and I think I am just to weak to become a vegetarian (veganism is a different matter). But I do not try to be perfectly good. By trying to be perfectly good you could not even kill a spider in your house or else...

Whatd do you think? What do you think about my points? Do you consume meat? Do you think it is right/wrong and why? Are there any other good arguments against the consumption of meat you want to share?


Have a nice day!


[ Censored ] bless! Wink


Eating meat isn't neccessarily wrong. It's a habit we humans engage in. It basically is cannibalism unconscious people deal in out of habit. Out of not knowing the inter-connectedness of sentient beings. Out of not being inniciated into .... you name it.

And if I'm bold, I just say it's a habit that is promoted and advertised by the capitalistic economical system for the sake of making us all guilty of eating our fellow mammals and non-mammals.

And yes, I hear the tomatoes scream when I eat them. They scream: "Thank you for devouring me! I'm a ripe fruit! I like it like that!"

Ha!
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08-03-2017, 05:29 PM
RE: Is it wrong to eat meat?
Only if you cut it with the grain instead of across.

#sigh
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08-03-2017, 05:38 PM
RE: Is it wrong to eat meat?
(26-01-2017 04:36 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Bacon is good. Bacon wrapped or added to anything is just better.

Sorry...

Did I mention that bacon is good?

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08-03-2017, 05:46 PM
RE: Is it wrong to eat meat?
(08-03-2017 05:38 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(26-01-2017 04:36 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Bacon is good. Bacon wrapped or added to anything is just better.

Sorry...

Did I mention that bacon is good?

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You mean Francis?
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