Is math invented or discovered?
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20-10-2016, 06:32 PM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(20-10-2016 11:02 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Commercial necessity for keeping track of trading in the ancient Middle East.

Then it just developed over a few millennia, became abstract, then applied even more and so on...

Something about that sounds silly to me, to be honest. "It's just something created for trading...oh, and then it turned out it can describe the universe or something." Smile
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20-10-2016, 06:43 PM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
I am a firm believer that math was conjured up by evil forces to vex the minds of those of us who cannot tolerate the comingling of numbers, letters, and symbols. It was later forced upon us in order to achieve higher education by the Illuminati so as to keep those of us unable to crack the codes out of the elite levels of society.

Or, it was aliens.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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20-10-2016, 07:16 PM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(20-10-2016 06:43 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I am a firm believer that math was conjured up by evil forces to vex the minds of those of us who cannot tolerate the comingling of numbers, letters, and symbols. It was later forced upon us in order to achieve higher education by the Illuminati so as to keep those of us unable to crack the codes out of the elite levels of society.

Or, it was aliens.

Much beauty can be found in the commingling of numbers, letters and symbols. Here is one example that has so many different meanings in mathematics that it staggers my imagination:

[Image: PrtOY66.jpg]
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20-10-2016, 07:24 PM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(20-10-2016 07:16 PM)Fireball Wrote:  
(20-10-2016 06:43 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I am a firm believer that math was conjured up by evil forces to vex the minds of those of us who cannot tolerate the comingling of numbers, letters, and symbols. It was later forced upon us in order to achieve higher education by the Illuminati so as to keep those of us unable to crack the codes out of the elite levels of society.

Or, it was aliens.

Much beauty can be found in the commingling of numbers, letters and symbols. Here is one example that has so many different meanings in mathematics that it staggers my imagination:

[Image: PrtOY66.jpg]

Weeping

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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20-10-2016, 07:24 PM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
Math is learned.
Humans are pattern seeking monkeys.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-10-2016, 07:31 PM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(20-10-2016 06:32 PM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  
(20-10-2016 11:02 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Commercial necessity for keeping track of trading in the ancient Middle East.

Then it just developed over a few millennia, became abstract, then applied even more and so on...

Something about that sounds silly to me, to be honest. "It's just something created for trading...oh, and then it turned out it can describe the universe or something." Smile

Some sharp guys figured out how to express records for trade, other sharpies figured it out for making buildings square. Mathematics evolved as sharp people figured out ways of expressing their surroundings in abstract symbols. Hell, IIRC, we got to the moon using pi to 4 decimal places. We inserted a probe into orbit around Jupiter within 1 second of the predicted time, after a 7 year flight. What's not to like?
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20-10-2016, 10:34 PM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(20-10-2016 11:23 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The chicken....

no wait...

the egg......

or...

Maybe it was the chicken.....
...

Eggs evolved before chickens, so yeah, definitely egg first.

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21-10-2016, 12:26 AM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(20-10-2016 10:54 AM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  Hello, people.

I believe fairly strongly that math is discovered, while our understanding and methods of what we do discover are of our own invention. One simple, classic example is the Fibonacci sequence appearing in nature. I go a step further and say that the universe is basically mathematical. Others might say it has order, structure, but isn't mathematical because it has physical properties, or that calling it mathematical would mistake the map for the territory, but I think the "essence" of mathematics is something pure that defines the essence of reality. Furthermore, I think the "physical reality" is something of an illusion, so there is no distinction between map and territory.

What do you think? Is math invented or discovered? What is math anyways? Does it exist? Is it physical or abstract? What is the distinction between physical and mathematical? I'd like to hear whatever thoughts you have.

What is zero to the power of zero and why?
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21-10-2016, 12:29 AM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(20-10-2016 06:32 PM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  
(20-10-2016 11:02 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Commercial necessity for keeping track of trading in the ancient Middle East.

Then it just developed over a few millennia, became abstract, then applied even more and so on...

Something about that sounds silly to me, to be honest. "It's just something created for trading...oh, and then it turned out it can describe the universe or something." Smile

You can say the same thing about language. Maths is just a more concise way to describe things. Like logic. Where does Maths end and Logic begin? Is Logic built into the universe? And if so, what form of logic? Predicate calculus? Fuzzy logic? What form of Maths are you talking about? Geometry? Statistics? Calculus? What about computer programming languages?

They're all invented languages and we're inventing new ones to solve new problems.
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21-10-2016, 01:19 AM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(20-10-2016 06:32 PM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  
(20-10-2016 11:02 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Commercial necessity for keeping track of trading in the ancient Middle East.

Then it just developed over a few millennia, became abstract, then applied even more and so on...

Something about that sounds silly to me, to be honest. "It's just something created for trading...oh, and then it turned out it can describe the universe or something." Smile

OK, bit simplistic.

Before maths you have to have numbers, that makes them the first root of maths. What do you want to count? Every morning you can count your goats, probably on fingers and hands, "three hands of goats all present and correct". Don't need a record, easy to remember.

Now, trade four goats for twenty bushels of virnbat harvest time, in six months time - you need a record of the contract, meaningful scratches on a pot shards or notches on wood, two copies, signed.with your unique scratch.

The value of a goat in some other commodity, especially when dealing in futures, had to be agreed and recorded.

Later they made clay counters with agreed symbols for the commodity being traded and exchanged those.

Then some sort of numerical system became used for other purposes that involved a record for numbers over ten, or maybe ten tens. With written numbers you could more easily do sums, the carpenter could tot up the cost of tbe wood, the nails, the number of hours... And more easily demonstrate the full cost to the customer (entirely a supposition.)

When mathematics became more abstract I have not researched but the Sumerians developed a proper numerical system. Human nature took over from there, the rest is historical detail.

I still contend that accounting systems were the first motivation for a recorded counting system. Once you start something like that . . .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_...al_systems

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