Is math invented or discovered?
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21-10-2016, 05:00 AM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
"Mathematics" is a purely human construct. No humans = no maths.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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21-10-2016, 06:31 AM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
We invented the symbols, the principles are discovered.

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21-10-2016, 06:49 AM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(20-10-2016 10:34 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(20-10-2016 11:23 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The chicken....

no wait...

the egg......

or...

Maybe it was the chicken.....
...

Eggs evolved before chickens, so yeah, definitely egg first.

In any case, fried will do just fine.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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21-10-2016, 06:50 AM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(21-10-2016 06:31 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  We invented the symbols, the principles are discovered.
And developed, refined, extrapolated . . .

I am lousy at maths but I remember the first time my brain translated a bunch of numbers into something I could visualise. Way back when in 1973.

Then, another occassion, I realised that i, an imaginary number, in this particular application, actually turned a phase angle through 90 degrees.

Magic!

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21-10-2016, 04:23 PM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(21-10-2016 06:50 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  
(21-10-2016 06:31 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  We invented the symbols, the principles are discovered.
And developed, refined, extrapolated . . .

I am lousy at maths but I remember the first time my brain translated a bunch of numbers into something I could visualise. Way back when in 1973.

Then, another occassion, I realised that i, an imaginary number, in this particular application, actually turned a phase angle through 90 degrees.

Magic!

Mathemagic? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-10-2016, 04:33 PM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
I tend towards thinking it is invented. (This is not surprising since I think it is all invented anyway.) What I find fascinating is the number of independent simultaneous mathematical inventions. It's more than just Newton and Leibniz. (You gotta weed through it for the math ones.) Arguably this could be used to support the discovered position.

#sigh
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21-10-2016, 08:10 PM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(21-10-2016 04:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I tend towards thinking it is invented. (This is not surprising since I think it is all invented anyway.) What I find fascinating is the number of independent simultaneous mathematical inventions. It's more than just Newton and Leibniz. (You gotta weed through it for the math ones.) Arguably this could be used to support the discovered position.

Many things are multiply and nearly simultaneously invented. It is merely the current state of science and/or technology coupled with the zeitgeist.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-10-2016, 09:10 PM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(21-10-2016 04:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I tend towards thinking it is invented. (This is not surprising since I think it is all invented anyway.) What I find fascinating is the number of independent simultaneous mathematical inventions. It's more than just Newton and Leibniz. (You gotta weed through it for the math ones.) Arguably this could be used to support the discovered position.

At that point in mankind's history, mathematics was ripe for someone to develop the calculus. It's no surprise about "simultaneity" in the development of analysis, within reason. The more communication between people, the more there will be at least quasi-simultaneous discovery.
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22-10-2016, 03:47 PM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(21-10-2016 04:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I tend towards thinking it is invented. (This is not surprising since I think it is all invented anyway.) What I find fascinating is the number of independent simultaneous mathematical inventions. It's more than just Newton and Leibniz. (You gotta weed through it for the math ones.) Arguably this could be used to support the discovered position.

Hmm, as I think has been said numeric symbols where certainly invented to fill a need as trading got more complex. From that moment it was development, stepwise as realosation and inspiration opened up new conjectures, concepts and avenues over thousands of years.

The real big step after numbers was into abstract maths, not motivated by the physical arts, commercial, military etc, but for the sake of maths and intellect alone.

Bit like the wheel, was it invented as is or did it develop from the roller, the "bobbin" (roller thinned in the middle to miss stones etc), the rolling axle (two "disks" rammed onto a thin branch) then to a fixed axle with rotating discs st the end?

Quite difficult to think of anything that was truly invented, as is, and not a development of or inspired by a simpler, or combination of earlier or simpler, item(s) or idea(s).

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22-10-2016, 04:35 PM
RE: Is math invented or discovered?
(22-10-2016 03:47 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  
(21-10-2016 04:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I tend towards thinking it is invented. (This is not surprising since I think it is all invented anyway.) What I find fascinating is the number of independent simultaneous mathematical inventions. It's more than just Newton and Leibniz. (You gotta weed through it for the math ones.) Arguably this could be used to support the discovered position.

Hmm, as I think has been said numeric symbols where certainly invented to fill a need as trading got more complex. From that moment it was development, stepwise as realosation and inspiration opened up new conjectures, concepts and avenues over thousands of years.

The real big step after numbers was into abstract maths, not motivated by the physical arts, commercial, military etc, but for the sake of maths and intellect alone.

Bit like the wheel, was it invented as is or did it develop from the roller, the "bobbin" (roller thinned in the middle to miss stones etc), the rolling axle (two "disks" rammed onto a thin branch) then to a fixed axle with rotating discs st the end?

Quite difficult to think of anything that was truly invented, as is, and not a development of or inspired by a simpler, or combination of earlier or simpler, item(s) or idea(s).

True. It happened over an extended period. The abstract math and the like...it is analogous to poetry. Just like language, math can convey imagination and creativity.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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